Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

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SammyJ_D
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Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by SammyJ_D » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:07 am

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K. Hare
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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by K. Hare » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:10 am

I like this match. but I think it is one of the more overrated hyped matches of the past few years. I'm not too much of a "they do too much" guy, but in this case I was just burned out by the end. I haven't watched it in a while, but I doubt I'll like it any more. Good match but it won't make my list.

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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by JML » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:23 am

No. This is one of the few matches that I looked at the rating from Meltzer, watched the match and said "What the hell was he watching?"

When people on other boards talk about guys doing cosplay Puroresu, I usually roll my eyes but this match is the precise description for this. It's like both guys are cosplaying Puroresu. This match never connected with me.

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Francis Adu
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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by Francis Adu » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:58 pm

Nah, Elgin & Davey just didn't know how or when to stop. Traded nearfalls & bomb throwing for logic and those nearfalls & bombs quickly lost any meaning, value, or excitement. To be fair, it's not like they lost the crowd tho.

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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by rovert » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:06 pm

I don't think this is ***** at all. But as someone watching on iPPV and refreshing endlessly this match was the difference maker in terms of asking for a refund.

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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:00 am

Love this match for the precise reasons others in this thread didn't. It was a bomb throwing, excessive, near fall spamming riot, and all of that worked in this time & place. Elgin's fighting spirit spot towards the end had me marking out like a lunatic in the hotel room where I watched this.

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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by mlev76 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:55 am

I really disliked most of the early Sinclair era ROH and really couldn't tell you anything about how this match came about. What I can say is when I saw this match, it reminded me why I liked Richards and convinced me that Elgin was the 'next' guy in ROH to breakthrough in the same way Black became that after the first Nigel match. Like Black, they waited way too long to put the belt on Elgin and he then screwed things up for himself when he was champion, but this was and probably still is his best match (even ahead of his great G1 matches).

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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by Robareid » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:04 pm

Compared to almost everybody else on here I've been a wrestling fan for a very short amount of time, and this was right around the time I stepped out from the WWE Universe and started exploring the wider world of wrestling, and ROH was where I started. This double shot was, iirc, the first iPPV I ever ordered and obviously it was a complete disaster from a production standpoint, but this match has caused me to have a soft spot in my heart for ROH ever since.

Now I'm not a rewatch guy at all, and I'm confident that this wouldn't hold up, but this match was simply put everything I wanted from wrestling that WWE wasn't giving me, and was easily my favourite match ever then. Hell, it's my favourite match I've ever seen now. That's not saying I think it's probably the best match I've seen, I'm sure it's probably not, but I've never quite got the same level of enjoyment on first watch of any match since this.

This was also kind of before Elgin's formula got tired (and he's only just changed it up now with working in New Japan) and for me everything just clicked here. I'm usually a grumpy wrestling fan who isn't into no-sells, but when Elgin kicked out at one during the finishing stretch and fired up they had me in the palms of their hands.

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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by Joe Lanza » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:21 pm

Robareid wrote:Compared to almost everybody else on here I've been a wrestling fan for a very short amount of time, and this was right around the time I stepped out from the WWE Universe and started exploring the wider world of wrestling, and ROH was where I started. This double shot was, iirc, the first iPPV I ever ordered and obviously it was a complete disaster from a production standpoint, but this match has caused me to have a soft spot in my heart for ROH ever since.

Now I'm not a rewatch guy at all, and I'm confident that this wouldn't hold up, but this match was simply put everything I wanted from wrestling that WWE wasn't giving me, and was easily my favourite match ever then. Hell, it's my favourite match I've ever seen now. That's not saying I think it's probably the best match I've seen, I'm sure it's probably not, but I've never quite got the same level of enjoyment on first watch of any match since this.

This was also kind of before Elgin's formula got tired (and he's only just changed it up now with working in New Japan) and for me everything just clicked here. I'm usually a grumpy wrestling fan who isn't into no-sells, but when Elgin kicked out at one during the finishing stretch and fired up they had me in the palms of their hands.
I find that personally most matches don't hold up over time. Standards & styles evolve, and I think it's unfair to hold up old matches to new standards. You make a good point about this match being at the start of Elgin's style curve, which exemplifies the idea that watching it after you've seen Elgin do this kind of match 100 times unfairly punishes it. When you rewatch things, you have to be careful, because you may see things you can't unsee. It's not that rewatching doesn't have value, but to me the most important aspect of a match is how it made you feel in real time.

Elgin's one count kickout was one of the most well timed and effective one count kickouts ever. That one spot took the match up to a new level. This is the best of the "excessive" style of matches from this time period. Sometimes, "they didn't sell enough" is true, just as often it's just shit people say for confirmation bias. Sometimes, it's good, because it's fun to shut off your brain, stop being a critic, and just watch two guys do a bunch of cool shit. I don't remember well enough which of those descriptions this match fits, all I know is that the match was a shit ton of fun.

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Re: Davey Richards vs. Michael Elgin (ROH 03/31/12)

Post by Robareid » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:23 pm

Yep, that's why I never rewatch matches (occasionally promos) unless I've half watched a match not paying full attention to it. For me the emotion I get from that first watch is what I care about. I'm not saying anybody who does rewatch is wrong, it's just not for me and I don't think it ever will be.

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