VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

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VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:44 am

Voices of Wrestling returns this week with a three hour extravaganza covering a very eclectic range of topics. For the first time ever we open with NWA talk, before moving on to the dysfunctional state of Total Nonstop Action. From there we break down the FloSports entry into the streaming wrestling service game, giving details as to what we know, and our opinions on whether the service will be a success. Hour three features a review of Pro Wrestling NOAH's latest Great Voyage and a breakdown of Katsuhiko Nakajima's GHC title win, before going 1-10 on this weekend's WWE Hell In A Cell PPV.

Website: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2016/1 ... hell-cell/
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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by EvanDeadlySins » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:01 am

Any talk on the Stardom situation in this, or are you waiting for it to pan out and be official before discussing it on the pod?

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by ayaashm » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:44 am

Just a few minutes in and this NWA banter is incredible.
Lanza is a geek.
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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by Hobbes » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:02 am

Just listened to the TNA segment. I'm not an expert of anything, but I have followed TNA's inner workings for the last year plus to a sad degree, so I might be able to clear a few things up:

- The central argument of Billy's case against TNA, to me, is that under the terms of his third loan, if TNA went insolvent before he was repaid, he would get Dixie's shares. Although there are other parts to the case, to me they all pale in comparison to this. TNA can say Billy's loans were predatory and Billy can say TNA lied to him about things, but the core of the case is simply "During the last few months, did TNA ever owe more than they were worth". If they did, by the conditions of the loan Dixie agreed to, TNA should already be his right now. TNA is trying to say his loans were predatory (Which I don't know if that even matters), that offers from WWE and Billy prove TNA's worth more than they owe (Billy's side claims those weren't firm offers and that neither of those parties had full knowledge of TNA's debts at the time of the offers), and that even if TNA was insolvent, under Tennessee law the kind of transfer of ownership in their agreement isn't legal (I've heard mixed opinions online about this).

- About Billy owning a third of the company, I don't think he's ever owned any. He has outstanding loans that he could've converted into a third of the company, but to the best of my knowledge he never did.

- About Dixie asking her Dad for more money: Dave once said on twitter that the Carter family does not have as much on hand cash as you'd think, and that they've had to sell a lot of land over the years to keep TNA afloat (Dave on Observer Radio this week estimated that TNA may have lost 75 million dollars over their 14 year history). By all accounts Dixie's parents cut her off quite awhile ago. Moreover, it sounds like the loan Anthem just gave to Dixie to pay off Billy will just be transferred into Anthem owning the majority of TNA if this case goes her way. If that's the case, there wouldn't even be a way for Dixie to repay her parents, because she has basically sold TNA for money to repay Corgan.

- About Billy asking for more money: Billy's loan deal says that when he is to be repaid, he gets what he loaned plus six percent interest. Anthem has apparently agreed to pay him his loan plus six percent. The hang up is there is apparently some other clause in his contract I don't quite understand, where if something happens, TNA would have to pay an additional penalty which is the sum of 50% of his loans. Anthem does not want to pay that. TNA is claiming that at one point Billy agreed to take Anthem's offer of his original loan value plus six percent, and agree not to fight for the extra 50% clause, but then a few days later changed his mind about that. Dixie's side does not want to pay Billy his loan plus six back unless he also agrees not to fight for this extra 50%, and in fact they want him to sign a release saying he won't pursure any further legal action against TNA or Dixie.

- About how wrestling fans should root for Billy to run TNA: I don't know if there's anyone to root for in this. What do we know about Billy? We know he's a wrestling fan. How much money does he have? Can he sustain heavy losses? All we know about how he does wrestling business is his time booking Resistance Pro, and the office people who worked with him there did not come away impressed to say the least. Oh, and we know he really likes Vince Russo.

Meanwhile Anthem has no experience in running a wrestling company and is appointing a guy from Aroluxe to run it, who to the best of my knowledge also has no experience running a wrestling company. Weeks ago in the Observer Dave said that Aroluxe's plan if they bought TNA was to cut costs by running even fewer tapings a year, so if one of their top employees is now in charge, I could see that happening. Is that any better or worse than Billy running it? It sounds like two bleh options.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by mlev76 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:26 pm

To Hobbes' points:

1) If Corgan's loan wasn't predatory, they were at very least opportunistic and creepy. That doesn't make it illegal by any means, but it does speak volumes to his character as a person. It should also be noted that the agreement regarding the shares was only entered into AFTER the loan was made, meaning from a contract perspective, consideration was paid without the terms of that agreement being put down on paper. It's beyond ridiculous to me that someone who has worked in entertainment as long as he has would do such a stupid thing.

2) From Dave's write up, it does not appear that at the present time Corgan has converted any of his loan into shares. As of now, Dixie owns 92.5, Aroluxe owns 5 and I think Anthem owns the other 2.5.

3) The money Dixie's parents lent TNA is likely long gone. And, given they probably never formalized it in any loan or pledge agreement, it may be considered a gift to Dixie for gift tax purposes.

4) The penalty appears to be a "poison pill" inserted into the contract to force Dixie's hand in selling the company to Corgan. Without seeing the actual agreement-which as far as I know hasn't been made public (Bix?)-it's impossible to say, but everything about the testimony and write ups that I have seen makes it clear to me that Corgan was looking to takeover the company from the moment of the first loan.

5) Billy Corgan, as a person, is a piece of shit. This is well known in the music industry and you can figure this out by his involvement with Alex Jones, an anti-semitic conspiracy peddling piece of shit. Is he the worst person ever to be involved in wrestling? Certainly not. But, there's nothing about him that makes me cheer for his arrival. Dixie is, as Rich and Joe stated, 100% a piece of shit and I have thought so once all the stories about her insisting on staying on board came out. She has tried to pretend to care about the wrestlers, but her actions say otherwise.

I know it's not nice to the wrestlers to wish for a promotion's death, but I'm sorry, this company is a festering cancerous boil that needs to be destroyed save any of the decent parts of it. Shakespeare would look at this situation and reiterate the famous line from Romeo & Juliet:

"A plauge o' both your houses."

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by powerfulmgp » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:06 pm

If Corgan was smart, he'd get his money back plus interest and walk away. Why in the fuck would anybody want a welfare wrestling company with millions of debt, nearly zero revenue streams, and a worthless TV deal that may or may not get renewed in April? He reeks of a total money mark who's desperate to get in there and rub elbows with the boys.

Hopefully the folks who worked the last set of tapings are able to get their money and know enough to never work for this company again.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:16 pm

EvanDeadlySins wrote:Any talk on the Stardom situation in this, or are you waiting for it to pan out and be official before discussing it on the pod?
I'd rather they do a little research before discussing, as I'm not sure either watches enough STARDOM to really have an opinion on the matter (and I say this as someone who hasn't watched a show since STARDOM World started up). Mainly, so they can be aware of just how fucked STARDOM is should this situation pan out.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by powerfulmgp » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:17 pm

I assume the people who question the value of the F4W/WON digital subscription are questioning the F4W component, not the WON component. Dave's passion for the business or dedication to his work has always unparalleled. You can count the number of missed or late issues over the last 30 years on one hand.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by dancecab » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:06 pm

Just to clarify, Fight Network is like Destination America in the States, the only way to really get it in Canada is a premium sports package. I would subscribe if I could but I don't have cable. For them they are currently trying to acquire a bunch of assets to fill out programming, currently they have AAA, CMLL, ROH, TNA, ICW, Pargagon and NGW. I guess the reason they want TNA versus a SMASH wrestling is it's an established name which would hopefully gain viewers. I love SMASH obviously and am more likely to watch it, but it's not going to sell the network as well as a show with the Hardys. They used to have alot UFC but have seemed to lost alot of that television to the much bigger station TSN so TNA is a major selling point for them.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by mlev76 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:34 pm

powerfulmgp wrote:I assume the people who question the value of the F4W/WON digital subscription are questioning the F4W component, not the WON component. Dave's passion for the business or dedication to his work has always unparalleled. You can count the number of missed or late issues over the last 30 years on one hand.
There are some people with issues with some of Dave's views with regard to sexism and racism in the business as well as his split passion between MMA and wrestling. For purposes of news, Dave is also much less relevant today than he once was. But, as was discussed on the podcast, his passion and work when stuff like the TNA debacle comes up does make up for that to a degree.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:53 pm

Hobbes wrote:Just listened to the TNA segment. I'm not an expert of anything, but I have followed TNA's inner workings for the last year plus to a sad degree, so I might be able to clear a few things up:
Great post.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:55 pm

powerfulmgp wrote:If Corgan was smart, he'd get his money back plus interest and walk away.
He'd be walking away from some form of TNA ownership with a profit.

What a worker.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:57 pm

BlizzardAcolyte wrote:
EvanDeadlySins wrote:Any talk on the Stardom situation in this, or are you waiting for it to pan out and be official before discussing it on the pod?
I'd rather they do a little research before discussing, as I'm not sure either watches enough STARDOM to really have an opinion on the matter (and I say this as someone who hasn't watched a show since STARDOM World started up). Mainly, so they can be aware of just how fucked STARDOM is should this situation pan out.
Yeah, there is probably zero percent chance we discuss this story from Stardom's POV. I'm very familiar with both wrestlers, but I watch maybe 5 Stardom matches in a good year. I don't think Rich watches at all. On the surface it seems like this will be very bad for Stardom. Not our wheelhouse though. We like to stay in our lane.

I'm sure we'll talk about it from the WWE perspective.

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by Jeff Hawkins » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:20 pm

Nate Milton throwing his power around at Fight Network to get TNA bought :)

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Re: VOW Flagship: TNA/Billy Corgan Saga, FloSlam, Hell in a Cell & more!

Post by Ferrante207 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:48 pm

EvanDeadlySins wrote:Any talk on the Stardom situation in this, or are you waiting for it to pan out and be official before discussing it on the pod?
I have no idea what this is, but it sounds interesting. Where can I learn more?

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