VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Talk about shows from the Voices of Wrestling podcast network and argue with us here.
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Joe Lanza
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VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Rich's Italian excursion continues, but nothing can stop the Voices of Wrestling Flagship as Joe breaks down some surreal topics, including Jinder Mahal's shocking push, Ken Anderson's future with ROH, and Katsuyori Shibata's potentially career ending headbutt. Other topics touched upon include Impact Wrestling in the post-Hardy world, a big EVOLVE weekend preview, and why Low Ki can be mentioned in the same company as Rey Mysterio Jr and Terry Funk.


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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Danwaka » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:21 pm

Two things:

1. Indian redditors have gone on the record Indian casuals love the pageantry of the WWE, which Jinder seems to have very little of RE character. So while he does have a decent Indian fanbase, he's no Khali.
2. Orton talked about Jinder Mahal a while back actually:


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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Danwaka » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:04 pm

RE Low Ki - I think Akebono thought Low Ki was being too stiff in their AJPW Royal Road Tournament match and made him regret it. Given that Akebono was booked to win the tournament and was one of AJPW's few remaining name wrestlers at that point I'm not surprised AJPW told Ki to fuck off.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by suplexberry » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:39 pm

Re: India. I went there in 2013 (after being interested/into their pop culture and general culture for about 10 years) and saw some bootleg WWE shirts. Only Cena and Orton. Impact was on prime time (watched like 20 mins with my friend who couldn't grasp that this wasn't actually WWE but some other wrestling, especially because the show featured Jeff Hardy, one of her fave guys), but WWE programming came on pretty late. I still remember watching Daniel Bryan join the Wyatt Family in a dark Kolkatta hotel room.

It's an "up-coming market" but it's sadly one with a ton of problems, kind of like China. Infastructure isn't great, so running shows there can be problematic. Wealth exists, but middle class isn't that big, and most wealth is with the 1%. Big population can make crowd control difficult - this is one reason why major Bollywood films go abroad these days (alongside with appealing to the Indian diaspora outside the subcontinent). But their mainstream entertainment is bombastic, filled with over-the-top emotions and very, very macho, particularly in the Southern states, where film stars are voices of authority and even become politicians. Censorship exists in film and TV, typically used to curtail causing communal offense (ie clashes between Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians, or between castes) or use of sexual imagery (kissing is not banned, if you've ever read that, it's just some actors who refuse to do it on-screen). If WWE gets big there, I hope they have a whipsmart local business guru (hey, Indian loan word!) who can navigate those waters, because holy hell - if you offend some part of the Indian society, good luck with that heat when there's a riot outside your offices with effigy being burnt.

I think at the very least, not actively driving away fans of the South Asian diaspora by depicting brown guys as racist caricature villains would be cool and a worthwhile thing to do while pushing them. I'm not sure that's happening with Jinder, but then, I don't keep a close eye on WWE anymore so would not know.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Ferrante207 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:14 pm

For someone who's main exposure to Low Ki was his nxt run and pairing with lay cool, what are his marquee matches to watch? He doesn't have an ROH best of DVD (who buys dvds these days anyway?) there isn't a best of XWT Pack. He's a tough dude to easily familiarize yourself with.


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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:19 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:For someone who's main exposure to Low Ki was his nxt run and pairing with lay cool, what are his marquee matches to watch? He doesn't have an ROH best of DVD (who buys dvds these days anyway?) there isn't a best of XWT Pack. He's a tough dude to easily familiarize yourself with.


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My instant answer is vs KENTA at Final Battle 2005, which you can probably find for free if you look hard enough.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:39 pm

RE: "In WWE, Who is worse than Jinder?"

Konnor, of course.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by supersonic » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:57 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:For someone who's main exposure to Low Ki was his nxt run and pairing with lay cool, what are his marquee matches to watch? He doesn't have an ROH best of DVD (who buys dvds these days anyway?) there isn't a best of XWT Pack. He's a tough dude to easily familiarize yourself with.


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http://ultimaterohmatchcomps.blogspot.c ... s.html?m=1

Plenty of classics in TNA, NJPW, Zero-One, PWG, and IWA-MS also.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Ferrante207 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:14 am

supersonic wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:For someone who's main exposure to Low Ki was his nxt run and pairing with lay cool, what are his marquee matches to watch? He doesn't have an ROH best of DVD (who buys dvds these days anyway?) there isn't a best of XWT Pack. He's a tough dude to easily familiarize yourself with.


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http://ultimaterohmatchcomps.blogspot.c ... s.html?m=1

Plenty of classics in TNA, NJPW, Zero-One, PWG, and IWA-MS also.
This list will be incredibly helpful if we ever get an ROH OTT. Thank you! I'm downloading final battle 2005 as we speak.


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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by powerfulmgp » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:34 am

Don't undersell yourself here Joe, going two hours by yourself on short notice will never not be impressive.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Weirzbowski » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:17 am

Jinder going for the title isn't the end of world but the ironic section of wrestling twitter has only served to make me never want to see him again. Also that stinker of a match with Cesaro.

Great show Joe.
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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by suplexberry » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:38 am

The Jinder discussion/over reactions have pinpointed something in wrestling fandom that has bugged me for a while: a lot of WWE-only or at least WWE-centric fans who only know this company's booking (possibly younger fans, though a lot of fans my age have this, too, because of how long WWE has been the biggest game in town), and because it's erratic, often lacks long-term planning and is treated like it doesn't matter (which in turn means fan reactions don't matter), there's this contingent of people who either genuinely believe or have successfully convinced themselves that this is just how wrestling is. People have consistently lowered their expectations so far down to the ground that suddenly any booking move that isn't completely predictable is revolutionary, and things like building stories, getting people emotionally invested is on secondary because the biggest company in the world doesn't care to invest in that, or course-correct when something doesn't get the desired reaction.

All in all, it gets me down, because it makes discussions about stories in wrestling even more annoying to engage in. It also often means that people in these discussions have grown up being impatient and unwilling to let storylines play out, because WWE pulls the rug from under you more times than you can count. It's why one of the owners of PROGRESS once appealed on his podcast to fans that even if they're not into a storyline, don't take a bathroom break, but see how it plays out because PROGRESS prides itself on that follow-up, that nothing happens for no good reason. (I wanted to tell him that people drop novels all the time if enough chapters are boring or badly written, every chapter has to keep the reader hooked, same with wrestling.) Especially with PROG, I try and allow things to develop because I can generally trust them to do so, usually, but it's just unfortunate that generally a lot of people in this fandom haven't even seen something long-term and satisfying because they've only seen the way WWE does things.

It's not like other promotions have it perfect, but at least they're trying, and at least it affects the bottom line, and you can safely care about what's going on because you know your emotional investment isn't going to be constantly fucked with. Not everything teased leads to something (recently noticed Naito has become the king of the tease that that goes nowhere, and I don't know if he's going off the cuff to get the office's attention or just messing with fans for the sake of messing with them, and that ambiguity is kind of fun), but at least most things do lead somewhere and it's satisfying to watch.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Speedy Bellerin » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:31 pm

Oops double post. Quoted myself instead of editing.
Last edited by Speedy Bellerin on Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by Speedy Bellerin » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:33 pm

Speedy Bellerin wrote:
suplexberry wrote:), it's erratic, often lacks long-term planning and is treated like it doesn't matter (which in turn means fan reactions don't matter), there's this contingent of people who either genuinely believe or have successfully convinced themselves that this is just how wrestling is. .
I didn't want to quote your entire post but I largely agree with all of it. WWE have become appallingly bad at story telling not just by wrestling standards but by the standards of fiction in genral. I think this Jinder situation is more evidence of that. Look I think the guy stinks but I'm for as many people getting over as possible, if he does then good for him, but last week he was the butt of a joke and the bottom of the barrel this week he's meant to be a main eventer. Nothing matters. So why should I care?

Business wise it doesn't initially cost them much more than a bit of ratings turbulence. I wonder what they could make if they had an extra million viewers each week, if the network had an extra half million subscribers, if tickets were slightly more in demand.

Thanks for the show Joe. Whether you have a co pilot or you fly solo it's always appreciated.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Jinder Mahal, Headbutts, EVOLVE, Impact Wrestling

Post by mlev76 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:35 pm

Ferrante207 wrote:
supersonic wrote:
Ferrante207 wrote:For someone who's main exposure to Low Ki was his nxt run and pairing with lay cool, what are his marquee matches to watch? He doesn't have an ROH best of DVD (who buys dvds these days anyway?) there isn't a best of XWT Pack. He's a tough dude to easily familiarize yourself with.


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http://ultimaterohmatchcomps.blogspot.c ... s.html?m=1

Plenty of classics in TNA, NJPW, Zero-One, PWG, and IWA-MS also.
This list will be incredibly helpful if we ever get an ROH OTT. Thank you! I'm downloading final battle 2005 as we speak.


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Here is the match Joe mentioned. A brutal classic:



Ki has some good pre ROH stuff that's worth checking out including his matches with Danielson at the Super 8 and King of Indies and his ladder match with Xavier from one of the NY indies in the early 2000s. All are on youtube I think.

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