VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

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VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Things got wild this week as Joe and Rich cover several topics from the world of wrestling including Cody Rhodes' template for success on the indies, his recent dust-up with Roman Reigns on Twitter and how the Bullet Club is transforming pro wrestling.

We also dive into Sunday's WWE TLC 2017 PPV and debut Bouncin' Around the Indies as we look at wrestling coming to College Station, AAW's Jim Lynam Tournament, The End of FloSlam, Early Mania weekend schedules & much more!

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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by Grammarian » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:24 pm

I want to see that Bone Soldier hoodie.
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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:36 pm

Haven't even finished the podcast yet but the topic of a wrestler getting themselves over with or without a push is interesting to me. I feel like the guys who leave WWE and succeed on indies( mostly Cody & Juice) did indeed get over basically by themselves in their limited roles.

First off Cody got that huge Legacy push at the beginning of his career but once they split the man made a career of turning chicken shit into chicken salad when it came to goofy ass WWE gimmicks. He turned a garden variety "vain pretty boy" gimmick into a Wrestlemania angle with Rey Mysterio "ruining his face". This got over. Cody then got deemphasised and parlayed that into a mild gimmick where he didn't wear knee pads and had a mustache. Ended up turning that into the Rhodes Scholars helped Sandow get over enough to win MITB. Cody turned his honeymoon into the Rhodes Family v Shield feud as a piece of the authority angle. He even busted Stardust which worked for awhile. Dude basically reinvented himself every 2-3 years and got it going enough where it got over but he never got pushed past the midcard. The only reason he left was because they would let him reinvent himself again. Not to ride Cody's jock because he isn't the biggest draw ever or an above average worker but the man knows how to get over in spite of his shortcomings.

Also touching on Juice real quick, he was green and had a dumb hippie gimmick but the man got over enough to be the jobber to the stars on several Takeovers. His 4 minute job to Owens is one of the more memorable jobs on a Takeover due to Juice busting Owens open doing that cool spinning palm strike. Juice appears to be smart enough to leave and push himself in Japan as opposed to wasting a decade attempting to reinvent himself.

Also on Reigns idk if he could get over on his own but I don't think that he has any agency on this Never ending push just because it's such an obsession for Vince & Co. Reigns probably lives in fear of expressing himself lest he be blamed for this push failing instead of how Vince is pushing it down people's throats.

Edit: Rich you think Zeppelin is yacht rock? WTF?!?!? This is a despicable take.
Last edited by Bloodbuzz Bunk on Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:47 pm

Grammarian wrote:I want to see that Bone Soldier hoodie.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by Grammarian » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:51 pm

I'm surprised Bone Soldier merchandise was even made, much less a hoodie.
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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by mlev76 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:59 pm

There are decent points made about Cody and Roman, but I think you overemphasize Cody's successes and downplay Roman's. In terms of the latter, I don't disagree with you on the success of his push. But, he was no more "handed the keys" than Cody was handed the keys in ROH. I was at the ROH show in NYC in May and even the overly pro-BC crowd HATED Cody and not in a heel way but in a go away way. That has obviously changed since he became more of a part of Being the Elite and therein lies something that runs counter to your narrative-the Bucks are the biggest stars on the indie scene, not Cody. Any success Cody has had has been tied to their work and what they've done. This is not to say that he doesn't deserve credit for taking a chance on himself, but you are exaggerating how much of where he is self generated. I also don't think Roman's done nothing and simply been handed everything. Yes, they chose to go with him, but there were many before and many after who didn't sustain themselves to the point to get to where he is. He is clearly not where he should be in the eyes of where they want him, but if we're going pound for pound, it's like being the CEO of a Fortune 500 company versus managing a local mom and pop shop.

In terms of following the Cody template, if it can be repeated, it is definitely a great path for frustrated WWE guys to take. But, as we've seen with Sami Zayn, Daniel Bryan and CM Punk, patience can and often does allow talent to win out. What someone does certainly is their choice, but I don't know that every WWE guy will get the opportunities the prodigal son will get. Not everyone's last name is Rhodes and the Bullet Club can only grow so big.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:13 pm

Getting out ahead of this now:





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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by janb » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:46 pm

Thats actually reminded me, I own that hoody too.

Simon Gotch is an interesting one. He was very good on King Of Trios, and I've heard positive stuff about his XWA work. He came out of WWE with negative backstage reputation and loser gimmick stink on him, so whether that has held him back from working more dates/high profile indies or that its just he isn't hustling well enough I don't know.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by MobbVanDam » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:41 pm

Just an FYI, if Forbes actually quoted you, they would've done so properly. Instead it was a Forbes contributor blog which means nothing and has tainted the Forbes brand ever since they launched this shitty method of generating content.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by Danwaka » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:24 pm

Most of the Forbes online stuff is contributer-based now, isn't it? Not exactly great to be referenced by them. Definitely not anywhere near being heard on BBC Radio.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by suplexberry » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:48 am

Great show so far (I'm about 60% done).

I see a lot of people on reddit etc say "well, there's money on the indies but it's not WWE money" or "it's good money but only for a handful of people". Which is both true and not true. Like you guys discussed, it's about knowing the market and then doing the work. If you don't know the market and don't want to do the work, you're getting nothing but the customary bookings because you're a WWE name. If you do the work but don't know the market then you may get somewhere like Impact but your work won't get noticed by the bigger money players. If you get the buzzworthy bookings but nobody ever invites you back because you're a diva or you just flatout suck as a wrestler, then it's all for naught. Coming from WWE you've already got an advantage a lot of indy guys would kill to have, so it's all about where to take that advantage.

Somebody like Neville? All the tools. If he lacks intimate knowledge about the outside then he's got friends for every finger working the scene who can tell him where to go and what to do, down to which gifmaker to follow on Twitter.

Think the Bullet Club discussion was also right on the money. I'm not a part of those BC fan masses, but even I enjoy the BTE web-series because of the creativity, the goofy over-acting and the little payoffs their running gags get. I think that show is gonna do a lot for even its ancillary characters like Flip Gordon. BritWres Roundtable some months back had a discussion about "hardcore casuals", and this label applies to the "ROH fans are the NoDQ dot com readers" line you guys had in this episode (which made me laugh out loud because it's kinda true). And it's completely 100% attracting casuals, too, based on the sample size I personally know, because it just seems like BC is the funny, cool bunch of guys who are also saying 'fuck you' to the big company (and its big dog). And if you're not a completist, like a boyband you can pick the member you like the best and get their shirt (my casual fan friend rocks her Villain shirt).

And the worker's leverage/power point is really interesting, too. Isn't this a part of the reason why nobody gets over huge in WWE these days? They want the "so happy to be here" mentality, they don't want the "we could make it anywhere because we're good and know our worth" mentality.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by FilipPejic » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:47 pm

Loved the podcast this week guys. But I think it might be to early to place Simon Grimm in that group of guys of wwe guys not working out on the Indy’s.
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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by DXvsNWO » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:51 pm

Great shows as always!! LOVED the breakdown of the Cody/Roman Reigns story as well as The Bullet Club's popularity.

On the discussions about the WrestleMania Weekend Schedule, I think the reason why WrestleCon isn't running any wrestling events on Saturday Night (and why WWN is running Style Battle in that same slot), is due to the combination of NXT TakeOver: New Orleans & ROH Supercard of Honor XII, which are going head-to-head. Obviously NXT is going to draw a sizable crowd, and ROH could draw their biggest crowd ever on that show, especially with Kenny Omega & Hiroshi Tanahashi already booked. That's probably why the WrestleCon SuperShow is running on Thursday instead of Saturday. I'm sure there will be people who won't be going to either show, so something could run in that spot, but regardless, I totally understand why WrestleCon wouldn't run anything at that time.

Also, I need to make a correction on something you said towards the end of the show. I didn't review that first Style Battle show. I reviewed the FIP show that was either the night before or the night after (I can't quite remember). That was the weekend where both ran their shows in that really odd venue in Tampa with the plants in the background. FIP was the promotion I said I didn't want to review again, because that was the first show of the new Gabe regime where they were pushing FIP as "edgy", but it ended up being complete trash. The first half of that show (Everything Burns 2017 was the name of the show, I believe) was Vince Russo-esque trash, and I remember totally burying it in my review.

That first Style Battle show in January actually wasn't that bad (I remember it being pretty solid as a whole), and I think that's the show that got Austin Theory his spot in EVOLVE. He lost to AR Fox in the first round in a really good match (which makes sense as I believe AR Fox trained Austin Theory), and a few weeks later, they announced in one of the WWN Alerts that they had signed Austin Theory to a WWN Contract, and he made his EVOLVE debut in February. Style Battle as a promotion just fell off a cliff after that first card. The second show in February (which Tracer X won) had some very odd booking, and after completely forgetting to watch the third one, it completely dropped off the radar for me. I can easily see it going away after this show in New Orleans. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole reason behind Style Battle's creation was to provide more content for FloSlam when it became clear that they weren't getting any other promotions to sign with them, right?
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Re: VOW Flagship: Cody's Template, Bullet Club, WWE TLC & Bouncin' Around The Indies

Post by BackLash » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:25 pm

Good for Cody for getting over in less than two years. For the likes of other wrestlers leaving WWE, it takes time to build up a reputation to being taken seriously by indie fans. The likes of Juice Robinson and Baretta are going through that right now. Those dudes got the goods, but neither are on a main event level, at least not yet. Drew Galloway took years on the indies to wipe off the "3MB" from himself and become a serious main event level contender (on the indies, we'll see what WWE will ultimately do with him). Should Cody be the barometer for how these WWE guys wanting to leave should take bookings? Sure, but these guys aren't Cody, so if they will get over, it most likely won't happen overnight.

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