VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

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Rich Kraetsch
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VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:11 pm

Topics this week on the Voices of Wrestling flagship podcast include AJ Styles and Minoru Suzuki entering the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame, how voters reacted to Tetsuya Naito, Kota Ibushi and other candidates this year, the ongoing legal battle between FloSlam and WWN including new details and court filings, Cody and the Young Bucks going "ALL-IN" and what it could mean for the wrestling world and last but not least brief NXT TakeOver & Survivor Series 2017 thoughts.

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thecubsfan
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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by thecubsfan » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:18 pm

I want to believe fictional Colt Cabana's lucha vote is for Los Brazos due to his love for Super Porky and nothing else.

Joe was very particular that Naito's never drawn 10K in *NJPW* and I'm not disputing that, but Naito & Yujiro did drew over 10K in CMLL and were part of a multiman that sold out Arena Mexico.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:34 pm

As bad as the current lucha situation is, Akiyama's is probably even worse. Nagata being dramatically saved this year (which you should #askquestions about in the same way you should question the Suzuki bump) is especially silly when Akiyama is in near danger of falling of the ballot.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:47 pm

thecubsfan wrote:I want to believe fictional Colt Cabana's lucha vote is for Los Brazos due to his love for Super Porky and nothing else.

Joe was very particular that Naito's never drawn 10K in *NJPW* and I'm not disputing that, but Naito & Yujiro did drew over 10K in CMLL and were part of a multiman that sold out Arena Mexico.
Good stuff, will note this next week.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:48 pm

armsofsleep wrote:As bad as the current lucha situation is, Akiyama's is probably even worse. Nagata being dramatically saved this year (which you should #askquestions about in the same way you should question the Suzuki bump) is especially silly when Akiyama is in near danger of falling of the ballot.
Akiyama is getting in next year. I'd bet on it.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:08 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
armsofsleep wrote:As bad as the current lucha situation is, Akiyama's is probably even worse. Nagata being dramatically saved this year (which you should #askquestions about in the same way you should question the Suzuki bump) is especially silly when Akiyama is in near danger of falling of the ballot.
Akiyama is getting in next year. I'd bet on it.
I could see it if the dopey "oh they're dropping off the ballot so NOW I'll vote for him" people rally. He does suffer from the JYD thing of Dave not being as high on him as other hardcore fans/journalists are.


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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by Grammarian » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:15 am

nice HOF (and neurotic Jewish comedian) discussion...
twitter me @ItsGrammarian

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by suplexberry » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:12 pm

I kept mishearing "neurotic" as "an erotic" which made the Jewish comedian discussion very confusing. But yeah, fuck Woody Allen. (Admittedly the first time I became cognisant of his existence was before I saw a film of his and heard about his marriage to his former stepdaughter ..so yeah. Fuck that dude.)

Missed this podcast, though conveniently the one week hiatus happened during my bi-annual wrestling burnout, which I'm slowly getting over now.

I think the "All In" show would hopefully happen somewhere autumn of 2018, so that it has any sort of chance to become a travel destination for people who are planning to go to the Long Beach thing and/or Mania weekend. People only have so much disposable income or time off available at all, if it happens in like, May or June, it may suffer just because people can't justify another travel expense in such a short amount of time. There's already been some fantasybooking on online about waiting until Bryan's contract lapses so that could be his big return, which would be very good. I obviously hope it succeeds and I'll be really curious to see who ends up involved, particularly in the main event.

Also, if they get some NJPW talent besides Kenny, somebody like Ishii should be top of the list. You could book virtually anybody against that guy and beef up the card in a significant way.

I've never heard about NJPW micro-managing excursion talent, is this a recent development as far as you guys know?

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by Garuda » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:26 pm

suplexberry wrote: Also, if they get some NJPW talent besides Kenny, somebody like Ishii should be top of the list. You could book virtually anybody against that guy and beef up the card in a significant way.

Ishii would be a great pick. If we're talking about low cost or risk to NJPW versus talent value, I think you've gotta get Jushin Liger on the card. I figure for like a Naito they wouldn't love risking a potential injury or whatever at a non-NJPW event. But Liger's no skin off their nose and people love to see him in the States, and would probably increase the "I would travel to see this" value for many.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:40 pm

suplexberry wrote: I've never heard about NJPW micro-managing excursion talent, is this a recent development as far as you guys know?
We've been told stories first hand from indie promoters (and I'm talking reputable, big time indies, not fly by nighters or shindies) where they would have a guy booked, and then mysteriously the rep would call with an apology or hokey excuse as to why they couldn't work the show. They were quite protective of Hiromu in terms of where and who he worked. I can vaguely recall an instance where Lucha Underground (AAA) talent was on a show, so NJPW pulled him, obviously out of loyalty to CMLL.

I never heard those kinds of stories about Takaaki Watanabe when he was over here, and he worked in places that I have direct contacts with. The story with him, was that he was switched from being Texas/NWA based to New Jersey/PWS based & living with Sumie Sakai at the last minute (so last minute that the wrestler he was supposed to stay with in Texas found out from us). It made sense because Sumie lives in New Jersey (Temura Boyz and others have stayed with her as well, as being based with ROH makes NJ convenient), plus PWS was running two or three shows per month at that time and had a training school so in theory there was plenty of work, but the problem is PWS booked him twice and then stopped using him. So he basically say home and barely worked, outside of random shots in Texas for Inspire and semi regular appearances for SMASH up in Canada. ROH started using him a little more when the NJPW/ROH thing took off, but overall EVIL's issue was less micro management and more a shitty excursion home base (PWS). In Texas, I can tell you emphatically because I know first hand, he would have worked 3-4 matches per week all over the state for both the old NWA affiliates and otherwise. He would have been an Inspire regular for sure.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by rovert » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:04 pm

Jay White kinda hit on it in his recent interview with Colt Cabana. A learning excursion is far from a vacation. You are still on the clock with New Japan.

Also, the people who host the talent for the learning excursions get paid a pretty decent premium to monitor.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by suplexberry » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:11 pm

Wonder how protective they were of Jay White, a guy who was obviously set to do big things from word go. He did seem a lot better booked than a few of the other rookies. It also seemed like especially the partnership promotions in RevPro and ROH were very mindful of how they presented him.

But knowing that makes me fascinated to see what will happen with this next class as they slowly trickle out into the world. You'd probably be an idiot to job Kitamura if you manage to book him, but I suppose it shows greater involvement in young lions is not only possible, but probable. You don't just go through the system anymore, how you go through it may vary on what the company sees in you. (If I may tease my essay in the NJPW yearbook, I kinda touch on this topic there.)

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:46 pm

suplexberry wrote:Wonder how protective they were of Jay White, a guy who was obviously set to do big things from word go. He did seem a lot better booked than a few of the other rookies. It also seemed like especially the partnership promotions in RevPro and ROH were very mindful of how they presented him.

But knowing that makes me fascinated to see what will happen with this next class as they slowly trickle out into the world. You'd probably be an idiot to job Kitamura if you manage to book him, but I suppose it shows greater involvement in young lions is not only possible, but probable. You don't just go through the system anymore, how you go through it may vary on what the company sees in you. (If I may tease my essay in the NJPW yearbook, I kinda touch on this topic there.)
Compare the booking treatment of Jay White in ROH (long undefeated streak) & Europe (good matches high on the card) and Hiromu in CMLL (pushed commodity, long featured feud with Dragon Lee, mask matches, hair matches) and the U.S. (the protection I cited) to Tempura Boyz and EVIL.

White is being pushed as an instant money player, as was Hiromu to a lesser extent when he same back. Tempura Boyz came back as a junior tag team, and EVIL a henchman of Naito.

In short, if you pay attention to how guys are treated on excursion and you can get a decent feel of what the company sees in them, at least short term upon return. For apples to apples, compare Hiromu's CMLL run to El Desperado's.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Styles & Suzuki, WON HOF, All-In, FloSlam/WWN & more!

Post by Danwaka » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:26 pm

So is that why BONE SOLDIER got sent to Puerto Rico, then?

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