VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

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Rich Kraetsch
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VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:30 pm

A spray to all fields edition of the Voices of Wrestling Flagship podcast with recaps of WWE Elimination Chamber, what's next for Kofi Kingston, DDT Judgement, Giant Baba Memorial show, RevPro High Stakes 2019, the controversial PAC vs. Will Ospreay finish, PAC's lack of jobs and much more.

-Iizuka Retirement Show & Honor Rising Cards on the Overrun at http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/patreon.

-Support our sponsor Mint Mobile: Get three months of service for only $20 at http://www.mintmobile.com/vow.



MP3: https://audioboom.com/posts/7182995-vow ... o-more.mp3

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armsofsleep
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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:00 pm

Surprised to hear you guys ABSOLUTELY BURY (aka sort of not like) Jonathan Gresham, especially when in my purview he had easily the best in-ring resume last year out of anyone on that much hyped RevPro card. Dunno if you guys have gotten some bad info from dubious Twitter sources, because the Lethal matches were overrated and most of his PBTV title stuff underdelivered (barring the Quack match which I really enjoyed). The singles stuff from last year that you actually want is the Starr match from IWC, the Wyatt match from SLA (which has some dumb booking stuff but is still good) and the Thatcher match from Nova Pro. Good match against Dominic Garrini from Nova Pro in June too, and even got a great match out of Josh Briggs in Beyond (and Briggs sucks massively). I can understand someone not fully appreciating him, this is the same podcast that couldn't jive with KUSHIDA vs SHO which was the second best juniors match in NJPW last year, but just thought you might need some extra recs you'll never get to.

Don't worry, I'm sure most people will do the same thing as you and be AMAZED at how somehow Gresham WORKS IN THE BEST OF SUPER JUNIORS ENVIRONMENT and now he's actually great and all that.


Anyway in terms of DDT Judgement, the crowd all over the show really sucked. Not sure whether it was due to diminishing returns with two sumo hall shows in a row or whatever, but it really dragged the show down IMO. In all, it was one of the worst big tentpole DDT shows in a while.

Marufuji vs Endo sucked massively. I'm not a huge fan of either but Marufuji worked it like a house show in front of 50 people, total sandbag dipshit performance by him. In fact, most of the main event serious stuff was pretty disappointing. Make time for Akito vs T-Hawk though, that was my favorite match on the show.

wrt DDT's depth, you have to consider the sub brands, and just the massive amount of people they have working somewhere under the umbrella of their organization. Guys like Fuminori Abe or Keisuke Ishii. You could, for instance, pretty easily find 25 wrestlers better than Jay White.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Danwaka » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:31 pm

I'm a bit surprised at the Gresham takes as well. I was under the impression as a casual who's only watched a few of his catch bouts that he's a pretty good junior. If he's in Super Junior I figured he'll do great because of his ZERO-1 experience and because he fills a slot that Zack Sabre would occupy in the G-1 Climax.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:37 pm

I will say that his obvious breakout shouldve been the ZSJ match at Final Battle which was weirdly disappointing (when they've had great matches before). But ultimately he's a guy who's never gotten a serious singles push in any major promotion. If he had an EVOLVE run or something I think people would view him way differently (then again, people still thought Thatcher and Yehi were bad after they produced bunches of great matches there too)

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Jeff Hawkins » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:59 pm

Tend to think Vince is so "youth culture obsessed" that he's fascinated by a guy who can carry the aura like Aleister Black whereas a guy who just goes to get some ink (for example, if he were to look at TJP's new ink and think he's trying to convey something he's not).

I'm not positive we can reverse the trend of "bigger is better" amongst fans whom WWE is all they know.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Danwaka » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:35 pm

Eh. I came in through WWE so maybe I'm part of the problem and the brainwashing, but I just dig bigger dudes more. It's not even height, just having mass gives you an aura of menace. And it's very much highlighted when you see openweight matches. Watching Gresham vs. Thatcher was a different experience than Barnett vs. Thatcher.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Jeff Hawkins » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:42 pm

Danwaka wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:35 pm
Eh. I came in through WWE so maybe I'm part of the problem and the brainwashing, but I just dig bigger dudes more. It's not even height, just having mass gives you an aura of menace. And it's very much highlighted when you see openweight matches. Watching Gresham vs. Thatcher was a different experience than Barnett vs. Thatcher.
well sure but if you have a roster of 6'3-6'7 guys, a 6'0 built guy gives off the impression of being "not credible" which is weird.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Danwaka » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:14 pm

Jeff Hawkins wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:42 pm
Danwaka wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:35 pm
Eh. I came in through WWE so maybe I'm part of the problem and the brainwashing, but I just dig bigger dudes more. It's not even height, just having mass gives you an aura of menace. And it's very much highlighted when you see openweight matches. Watching Gresham vs. Thatcher was a different experience than Barnett vs. Thatcher.
well sure but if you have a roster of 6'3-6'7 guys, a 6'0 built guy gives off the impression of being "not credible" which is weird.
Did a bit of quick checking on cagematch, taking out NXT guys and part-time or retired people employed by the WWE and I got the below.

6'6 - Braun Strowman, Erick Rowan and Luke Gallows
6'5 - Luke Harper
6'4 - Baron Corbin, Cesaro, Drew Galloway, Jinder Mahal and Rezar
6'3 - Brock Lesnar, Golddust, Kassius Ohno, Randy Orton and Sheamus
6'2 - Aiden English, Bobby Lashley, Bray Wyatt, Curtis Axel, Dean Ambrose, Fandango, Killian Dane, Konnor, Mojo Rawley, No Way Jose, Roman Reigns, Titus O'Neil and Zack Gibson
6'1 - Akam, Alexander Wolfe, Heath Slater, Jey Uso, Jimmy Uso, Samoa Joe, Seth Rollins, Shelton Benjamin, Shinsuke Nakamura, Tucker and Viktor,
6'0 - Apollo Crews, Bo Dallas, Curt Hawkins, Dolph Ziggler, EC3, Elias, Epico Colon, Eric Young, Karl Anderson, Kofi Kingston, Humberto Carillo, Oney Lorcan, Miz, R-Truth, Robert Roode, Rusev, Sami Zayn, Tomasso Ciampa, Tyler Breeze, and Zack Ryder

So... you might have a point. Because I'm 6'3 myself, and I can't fathom being in the same range as some of these people. Some I'd have assumed to be much smaller, and others much larger. How the fuck is Epico Colon six feet tall?

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:17 am

I find this obsession with size super weird. The sizes Danwaka posted sorta illustrates the point we really have no idea how big these guys except for the relative difference to each other. So in the end it really comes down to how you convey size and power which is somewhat of a lost art in today’s professional wrestling. Then again if a lot guys plodded around, did big sweeping vertical strikes and no sold guys who were one inch shorter and 15 pounds lighter than them, than I imagine we would all lament that as well.

Regarding Aleister Black. I think Vince has really good instinct at sizing up how to sell someone to the masses and ever since he lost CM Punk it feels like he has searched for a bonafide counter culture tattooed death metal guy because he now knows he to sell that. However, this instinct is also a weakness in that Vince tries to shove someone into a slot that they not necessarily fit or might misunderstand how to push someone like Black thinking that he is Punk 2.0. So it will be telling if we see Vince rush to get a microphone in Black’s hand in the next month or see if he prudently just lets him be a silent killer.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Ckkj14 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Disagree with Joes Kofi take massively. I don't think anyone sees him as the future face of the company or someone who needs to be the top guy on a brand for 6-8 months but when was the last title match at Mania that had a face go over that was beloved. For me Kofi should have faced Bryan at Mania and won the title and kept it for a couple of months. They lucked into something that has gotten very hot and should have ran all the way with it. With him getting the shot at Fastlane that obviously won't happen now though

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:27 am

armsofsleep wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:00 pm
Surprised to hear you guys ABSOLUTELY BURY (aka sort of not like) Jonathan Gresham, especially when in my purview he had easily the best in-ring resume last year out of anyone on that much hyped RevPro card. Dunno if you guys have gotten some bad info from dubious Twitter sources, because the Lethal matches were overrated and most of his PBTV title stuff underdelivered (barring the Quack match which I really enjoyed). The singles stuff from last year that you actually want is the Starr match from IWC, the Wyatt match from SLA (which has some dumb booking stuff but is still good) and the Thatcher match from Nova Pro. Good match against Dominic Garrini from Nova Pro in June too, and even got a great match out of Josh Briggs in Beyond (and Briggs sucks massively). I can understand someone not fully appreciating him, this is the same podcast that couldn't jive with KUSHIDA vs SHO which was the second best juniors match in NJPW last year, but just thought you might need some extra recs you'll never get to.
Wtf man, the only reason I watched the Powerbomb stuff is because you told me to!

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:09 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:27 am
armsofsleep wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:00 pm
Surprised to hear you guys ABSOLUTELY BURY (aka sort of not like) Jonathan Gresham, especially when in my purview he had easily the best in-ring resume last year out of anyone on that much hyped RevPro card. Dunno if you guys have gotten some bad info from dubious Twitter sources, because the Lethal matches were overrated and most of his PBTV title stuff underdelivered (barring the Quack match which I really enjoyed). The singles stuff from last year that you actually want is the Starr match from IWC, the Wyatt match from SLA (which has some dumb booking stuff but is still good) and the Thatcher match from Nova Pro. Good match against Dominic Garrini from Nova Pro in June too, and even got a great match out of Josh Briggs in Beyond (and Briggs sucks massively). I can understand someone not fully appreciating him, this is the same podcast that couldn't jive with KUSHIDA vs SHO which was the second best juniors match in NJPW last year, but just thought you might need some extra recs you'll never get to.
Wtf man, the only reason I watched the Powerbomb stuff is because you told me to!
I would NEVER ask you to watch Flip Gordon and Joey Lynch matches. I wouldn’t do that to you.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Danwaka » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:09 pm

Armsofsleep and Joe Lanza trading 'You are the Authority' tags to slide out of watching Powerbomb TV of their own volition. McMahon-esque in it's nature, folks.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:10 pm

Gresham got over immediately on Honor Rising N1 as he and Eagles looked excellent together.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:07 pm

The timeline to Joe loving Gresham is accelerating it seems thanks Gedo

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