VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:21 am

armsofsleep wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:07 pm
The timeline to Joe loving Gresham is accelerating it seems thanks Gedo
I will say this. He's probably the most consistent guy I watch. Always lands right at like ***1/4-***1/2, every time.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:52 am

Elimination Chamber was so weird for me. I took 9pm to 10pm EST off to watch True Detective. What I saw was the following...

Buddy Murphy v. Akira Tozawa which was fantastic.
Women's EC which I thought was very good on the sliding scale.
Incredible Becky Lynch segment.
*Watch True Detective*
Watch the full final frame of the Men's EC which was incredible.

If that was the entire PPV, I would say it was a great.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by OMGlancy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:32 pm

Disagreed with the Kofi stuff, because it's silly to act like the Smackdown title belt is going to main event Mania. It will be the 4th highest match on the card, at best. Raw women's title, Universal Title, whatever Hunter does, possible Cena match, and Shane's match would all be positioned higher, so what does it hurt to have a guy like Kofi in the match?

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:48 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:21 am
armsofsleep wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:07 pm
The timeline to Joe loving Gresham is accelerating it seems thanks Gedo
I will say this. He's probably the most consistent guy I watch. Always lands right at like ***1/4-***1/2, every time.
Yeah a lot of mileage with him will come down to the old "what you value" conundrum. Gresham to me is a guy who can basically get a ***1/2 star match out of anyone, so he just has a super deep in-ring resume every year. But he's not the type of guy who's going to have the high, high end MOTY level stuff. Or atleast not yet, not in the companies that he's been in with the type of push he's received

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by ThommyGunn » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:48 pm

Yeah I gotta disagree with the guys' Kofi take. I think you're looking at it from a "bubble" perspective. Maybe to the hardcores he lacks cache but this guys is massively over with the traditional WWE crowd and he's lowkey loved equally by the adults and kids. A lot of now adult WWE fans have been watching Kofi for a very long time and could easily flip that switch on Kofi being their favorite guy. I think he'd be a perfect fit for a 2-3 month type of run where eventually he could get dog walked by a returning Kevin Owens or something like that.

I know they value their titles more than they did in the past but honestly I think Kofi is easily on the level of a King Booker T or Hall of Pain Mark Henry, strap the dude up and see what happens. And I know I will get flamed for this take, but I could make the argument that he's on/near the same level that Chris Beniot and Eddie Guerrero were when they got their World title shot, at least to a certain(and large) part of WWEs current audience.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Danwaka » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:39 pm

No, I'll agree with you about the Benoit / Guerrero Comps.

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Jeff Hawkins
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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Jeff Hawkins » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:52 pm

Ckkj14 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:08 pm
Disagree with Joes Kofi take massively. I don't think anyone sees him as the future face of the company or someone who needs to be the top guy on a brand for 6-8 months but when was the last title match at Mania that had a face go over that was beloved. For me Kofi should have faced Bryan at Mania and won the title and kept it for a couple of months. They lucked into something that has gotten very hot and should have ran all the way with it. With him getting the shot at Fastlane that obviously won't happen now though
Probably a generational gap, even though I'm a bit older than Joe

I think there's a mindset that if the company likes you, you should get a run with the main title, and the question is "why doesn't the company like Kofi enough to give him a short run" when it may just be "we don't think he'll draw money on top"

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by mlev76 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:15 pm

Jeff Hawkins wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:52 pm
Ckkj14 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:08 pm
Disagree with Joes Kofi take massively. I don't think anyone sees him as the future face of the company or someone who needs to be the top guy on a brand for 6-8 months but when was the last title match at Mania that had a face go over that was beloved. For me Kofi should have faced Bryan at Mania and won the title and kept it for a couple of months. They lucked into something that has gotten very hot and should have ran all the way with it. With him getting the shot at Fastlane that obviously won't happen now though
Probably a generational gap, even though I'm a bit older than Joe

I think there's a mindset that if the company likes you, you should get a run with the main title, and the question is "why doesn't the company like Kofi enough to give him a short run" when it may just be "we don't think he'll draw money on top"
I think it's clear that the internal opinion on Kofi changed between his replacing Ali, the gauntlet match and EC. Whether it's changed enough to push it to what seems like the natural endgame (fuck finish at Fastlane, title change at Mania) may not even have been decided and may depend on the next few weeks and how much the fans react to Kofi. Things seem so fluid and up in the air with Mania and the WWE title match is likely third from the top at best that absent a major star (Cena or Taker) being considered for that slot, I'd say anything is possible.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Danwaka » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:00 pm

Jeff Hawkins wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:52 pm
Probably a generational gap, even though I'm a bit older than Joe. I think there's a mindset that if the company likes you, you should get a run with the main title, and the question is "why doesn't the company like Kofi enough to give him a short run" when it may just be "we don't think he'll draw money on top"
Nobody draws money on top in WWE, though. All you get is a sustained pop and maybe some mainstream exposure for the company. Nobody pops attendances, nobody increases network subscriptions, nobody pops ratings. And I'm talking long term, not one week spikes. This company does not support draws, it supports the brand. And the way you keep the brand alive is by occasionally placating fans while you bathe in Saudi blood money and TV rights.

As a sidenote, here's a statistic for the feel good social progress folks on twitter to get a hold of: The last male black main event champion in WWE was The Rock in 2013. Before that, Mark Henry in 2011. Before that, King Booker in 2006. Before that, The Rock in 2002. And yes, I'm discounting the ECW Championship (Bobby Lashley in 2006, Mark Henry in 2008 and Ezekiel Jackson in 2010) as being a mid-card title on a one-hour brand ala NXT.

And on another sidenote, I'll point out the obvious: Since winning the United States Championship, R-Truth has been off WWE cable television for all of Black History Month.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:53 pm

Jeff Hawkins wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:52 pm
Ckkj14 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:08 pm
Disagree with Joes Kofi take massively. I don't think anyone sees him as the future face of the company or someone who needs to be the top guy on a brand for 6-8 months but when was the last title match at Mania that had a face go over that was beloved. For me Kofi should have faced Bryan at Mania and won the title and kept it for a couple of months. They lucked into something that has gotten very hot and should have ran all the way with it. With him getting the shot at Fastlane that obviously won't happen now though
Probably a generational gap, even though I'm a bit older than Joe

I think there's a mindset that if the company likes you, you should get a run with the main title, and the question is "why doesn't the company like Kofi enough to give him a short run" when it may just be "we don't think he'll draw money on top"
Yeah. If we're talking some ultimately meaningless short run with no other purpose than getting a feel good pop, go for it. But even then, I think the time of year is bad timing for that.

Earlier in the thread someone made a good point, though. The SD title might end up like 4th from the top at best. Is that spot too high for Kofi? Probably, but maybe not.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:54 pm

OMGlancy wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:32 pm
Disagreed with the Kofi stuff, because it's silly to act like the Smackdown title belt is going to main event Mania. It will be the 4th highest match on the card, at best. Raw women's title, Universal Title, whatever Hunter does, possible Cena match, and Shane's match would all be positioned higher, so what does it hurt to have a guy like Kofi in the match?
Good points here re: card slotting

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by cbacon87 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:31 pm

There is also the angle, if we're getting into cynical territory, that now would be a good time to do something that makes it look like you're listening to your audience.

I mean, I don't think this is a cynical thing (like, say, the Revival) and it does feel like they're running with something hot, with a guy I'm sure is well liked and respected backstage. But, the fact that it's good optics might not hurt.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:18 pm

I think our general point around Kofi wasn't that he SHOULDN'T or doesn't DESERVE or anything like that but just that we and most people would probably feel more fulfilled if someone like Ali was in that slot as we could see him having more long term upside from a run like this versus Kofi which feels just like a cute-sy few month fling. Could this turn into a sustained thing? Maybe? With Ali I have more confidence in it being a launching pad. Kofi it feels like more of a diversion.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by ThommyGunn » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:07 pm

The point I was making however was that I don't think you guys are really giving enough credit to a guy like Kofi and maybe that's just because of how you two very similar wrestling fans view him. Which is totally understandable.

To a large part of this audience it wouldn't be just a feel good moment or "gold watch after a long career" type of run. A lot of fans looks at him like a Benoit or Guerrero type of guy, and a title run would be more like the long awaited coronation he has deserved for years and years now.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Elimination Chamber, Kofi Kingston, Giant Baba Memorial, RevPro & more!

Post by rollup » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:29 am

happy 50th birthday to rich

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