VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Talk about shows from the Voices of Wrestling podcast network and argue with us here.
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Joe Lanza
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VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:18 am

This week on the Voices of Wrestling Flagship Podcast we go across the world to talk about the latest in pro wrestling. Topics include a look at the recent news on the AAF/XFL football leagues and how it relates to wrestling, Bruce Prichard being re-hired by WWE, Kofi Kingston's WrestleMania plans, NJPW/ROH's Honor Rising shows, NJPW's upcoming 47th Anniversary Show, AJPW's huge Yokohama show and the great main event between Kento Miyahara and Suwama.


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Joe Lanza
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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:54 am

Realized we spent a bunch of time talking about Goto pinning Cobb in the tag, but it was Will. Not that Will beating Cobb is any less puzzling with Castle right there begging to take the fall.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by andrewrich » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 am

Joe Lanza wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:54 am
Realized we spent a bunch of time talking about Goto pinning Cobb in the tag, but it was Will. Not that Will beating Cobb is any less puzzling with Castle right there begging to take the fall.
I think the implications of Will pinning Cobb are fascinating.

First of all, you've got Ospreay hitting the Storm Breaker on Cobb, which was absolutely insane. And it kinda establishes this trend of "Okay, if he can hit that move on a big slab of beef like Jeff Cobb, who else can he hit it on?" He's got Bad Luck Fale in the first round of New Japan Cup, so there's some added drama there.

Second, Cobb is the ROH TV Champion and has basically been set up as this unbeatable force in ROH since he debuted in the company. Then all of a sudden, Ospreay pins him clean in the middle of the ring. Castle was right there to take the fall, but Ospreay pinned Goto. Maybe ROH canon ignores that, but I'm really hoping it will set up a title match between Cobb and Ospreay at MSG (which I think could be awesome).

Lastly, I think it's another giant flashing sign that Will Ospreay is approaching official heavyweight status in New Japan. 1) The English commentary was already talking about how Will is bulking up. 2) He's the NEVER Openweight Champion, which can serve as his gateway into the the HW division. 3) He pinned Jeff Cobb, a guy who is twice his size. The odds of Ospreay in this year's G1 Climax are looking better and better by the day.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by Ckkj14 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:09 am

After finding myself disagreeing with Joe on a few things last week I’m firmly stood in his corner this week. Ilja is someone that I don’t get either, never seen him live so their may be something to that but anytime I’ve watched him on tape he just does nothing for me.

TKO Ryan got a well deserved burial too. What a geek. He wasn’t even getting tagged in the tweets he was angry about. He stinks and hopefully he won’t be on the MSG show although I’m terrified we are getting Naito v Tavern.

Great show lads

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by OMGlancy » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:46 pm

Loved the burial of the Kingdom. I have said for a while that they are the worst pushed act in pro wrestling and a real sign of how lacking ROH is from a talent standpoint now that the Elite guys have left. When you have to push those guys, or guys like Brody King and PCO, you are in trouble.

Regarding the Miyahara/Omega comparisons, I think Joe (I think it was Joe) was right on that it comes down to exposure, but I think it also has to do with Kenny's affiliation with the Bucks and Cody. There are always going to be weirdos who hate anything involving those guys and will let that effect their opinion on matches.

And thanks for discussing the Kofi point from last week.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:44 pm

Dirty Secret/Confession time: when I first started getting into puro in late 2016, I had obviously never seen a Kento Miyahara match and had obviously seen an Omega match. By 2017, I started following AJPW and Miyahara based off the buzz from the Ishikawa v Miyahara matches and my first impression of Kento was looks like Kota, dresses like Okada, wrestles like Kenny.

That is to say that this dude did the smart thing and surveyed the landscape and gleaned something from his peers. It’s no knock on him because his combination of skills is uniquely his own but to say he doesn’t have some obvious influences is disingenuous.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:22 pm

Some AJPW notes:

I know Jake Lee was pegged as the heir ascendant two years ago, but I think most fans (and maybe the company) have sort of switched focus to Naoya Nomura as of late. He kicked ass in the CC last year, and he's picked up some big wins in the past couple months. Then of course he left NEXTREAM and vacated the tag titles in order to get a Triple Crown shot vs Miyahara. He will definitely lose that match, but it could set up for him to do great in the CC and maybe get a future title shot somewhere down the line.

WRT Miyahara/Kenny, sometimes the in-ring isn't everything to. Chalk me up as someone who finds Omega very frustrating (even if I still rate a handful of his matches a year very highly) and generally loves Miyahara, and some of that might be due to the gimmick. Miyahara owns every single entrance, he's the babyface underdog ace and he comes off as super cool and charismatic, basically you have to love him. Kenny, ever since coming to NJPW, has just had trouble nailing down a consistent character and gimmick. The Cleaner thing worked for a while but was a bit over the top, his initial run as top heel on top of Bullet Club was good, but then it finally seemed to be clicking for his babyface turn. But then the OG Bullet Club feud and Cody and The Elite splitting off and the Ibushi stuff sort of made everything too complicated, and having to play the heel against Tanahashi also didn't work with his weird meta character. As much as we try to play it down, gimmick and character matter a lot in how we view matches, and some of Kenny's grating characteristics come off much more so when you already aren't into his story/character work, whereas Miyahara's build with Suwama was just a simple "let's kill each other" feud set up by a bunch of really good interactions on tags throughout the tour.

In terms of AJPW Juniors, as the crazy person who watched every single show that made tape for AJPW so far this year, I do think the tournament is a bit underrated. Most of the matches (especially early on) were under 10 minutes, with many hovering around only 5 minutes. I can handle Chikara and Black Menso-re and the like in that sort of context. Yoshioka was a highlight all tour, his heel persona owns and I wouldn't be surprised to see him produce truly great buzzed about matches in the near future. Akira Francesco had some great stuff (like the Tajiri match) but his real highlight was a tour long feud against SHUJI ISHIKAWA that was teased in all of their tags together. I like Iwamoto more than most, but I think anyone would find something to love with Yoshioka or Maruyama this tour.

I mean, come on it's way better than the World Tag League lmao.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:45 pm

Can't remember if I mentioned it, but this year I skipped the tour for the first time in many years so I can't comment.

I can totally see why Omega is off putting to many. Miyahara definitely doesn't have that "quality". He's the ultimate likable babyface ace champion.

I really wanted to go deep on Lee but we ran out of time. He just isn't projecting like he should be. There is a group of young wrestlers in Japan that just can't find appropriate swagger, and it really frustrates me.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by IIDXias » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:48 pm

OMGlancy wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:46 pm
Regarding the Miyahara/Omega comparisons, I think Joe (I think it was Joe) was right on that it comes down to exposure, but I think it also has to do with Kenny's affiliation with the Bucks and Cody. There are always going to be weirdos who hate anything involving those guys and will let that effect their opinion on matches.
This exact attitude among so many Kenny fans is so tiresome. "The only objective way to view Kenny Omega's in-ring wrestling performances is the way I see it, as unreservedly fantastic, and anyone who thinks otherwise must have some ulterior motive!". Yawn. I think Tetsuya Naito is the greatest wrestler on earth and has been for many years now, but I don't claim that anyone who disagrees is doing so because of "his affiliation with (blank)" or "to be a hipster" or any of the myriad other claims Kenny stans make about anyone who is even remotely critical of him, because I'm an adult who's able to handle dissenting opinions in an adult fashion, i.e. without blindly claiming they're all coming from a place of bad faith.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by Ten410 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:56 am

Joe Lanza wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:45 pm
There is a group of young wrestlers in Japan that just can't find appropriate swagger, and it really frustrates me.
I completely understand where you're coming from. Right now I'm very high on Takuya Nomura but he even needs some grooming in that department and while I like Kaito Kiyomiya he is struggling to find himself. This is one area that New Japan excells in mainly with their working agreement with CMLL. Perfect examples of that are Nakamura and Naito. While they were fine performers it wasn't until they came from their tours that they put everything together and projected themselves as stars. Every company should think about doing this.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:38 pm

Very actively enjoyed the extended TK discussion--while I personally don't think he's anything more than "solid midcarder" once he fills out a little more and gets some more seasoning, ROH touts him enough as a prospect on TV that I'm been looking for others' opinions on his ceiling. Also, while Omakase & the J-Cast did discuss the TK vs. WH dust-up, they didn't really explicitly discuss TK as an overall package or as a worker. Not that I blame them--given the circumstances, why the fuck would they give TK that much attention time? Still, happy you guys filled that gap.

While I have no qualms in saying that The Kingdom, in its current incarnation, is one of only two things in ROH I care about, I also completely understand the burial on them here. While I have always advocated for them to go international and go places like NJPW (it seems like they're a hard unified trio in the U.S. when other countries put so much more emphasis on trios wrestling as a whole), I also have always figured that their style of heel-ism doesn't really jive outside of the States. Perhaps U.S. and European wrestling have enough overlap that they could work better as regulars over there?

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by Jeff Hawkins » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:38 pm

Kofi/Bryan isn't even as important as Shane/Miz

they may be curtain jerking for the hot opener.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by IIDXias » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:12 pm

BlizzardAcolyte wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:38 pm
While I have always advocated for them to go international and go places like NJPW (it seems like they're a hard unified trio in the U.S. when other countries put so much more emphasis on trios wrestling as a whole), I also have always figured that their style of heel-ism doesn't really jive outside of the States.
This was definitely a big problem on the Honor Rising shows yeah. TK was out there screaming at the Korakuen crowd stupid cheap heat shit in English that they were never in a million years going to react to (I mean, at one point he yells at the crowd "IS THIS YOUR GUY???" and points to Jay Lethal, and no buddy, Jay Lethal is literally NOT their guy!). They really needed to adjust their style a little bit and showed absolutely no capacity to do so.

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by OptionZero » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:48 pm

Isn't Ospreay pinning Cobb a fairly obvious setup to Ospreay/Cobb at MSG?

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Re: VOW Flagship: XFL, Prichard, Kofi,Honor Rising, AJPW

Post by OptionZero » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:53 pm

andrewrich wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:15 am
Joe Lanza wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:54 am
Realized we spent a bunch of time talking about Goto pinning Cobb in the tag, but it was Will. Not that Will beating Cobb is any less puzzling with Castle right there begging to take the fall.

Lastly, I think it's another giant flashing sign that Will Ospreay is approaching official heavyweight status in New Japan. 1) The English commentary was already talking about how Will is bulking up. 2) He's the NEVER Openweight Champion, which can serve as his gateway into the the HW division. 3) He pinned Jeff Cobb, a guy who is twice his size. The odds of Ospreay in this year's G1 Climax are looking better and better by the day.
Why are we still talking about Ospreay "approaching" heavyweight status?

Since January, he's pinned:
Kushida, Ibushi, Davey Boy Smith, Dalton Castle, Jeff Cobb

He will additionally face, by next week or so:
Bad Luck Fale, Jay White

Other:
Time limit draw against Dragongate champ, PAC

He's a freakin' heavyweight.

The only thing he's approaching is top 5 main eventer, and hell, he's main eventing the anniversary show for the 2nd straight year

It is obvious he's being pushed and protected to the point where i could see this guy being in a top 2 match at Wrestle Kingdom sooner or later.

The only thing missing is a hot G1 Climax run, and you KNOW he's going to kill it. Imagine him in a block with combination of: Ibushi, Naito, EVIL, SANADA, Okada, Ishii, Goto, Suzuki, ZSJ, White . . . he's going to be racking up 4.5 star or better matches all of July/August

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