VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

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mlev76
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Re: VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

Post by mlev76 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:10 pm

Not that I blame them for not going over them, but there are two Evolve shows this weekend which will likely shape the Mania shows. And having listened to the ROH preview, the Evolve show may be a better show!

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cbacon87
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Re: VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

Post by cbacon87 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:05 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:39 pm
You know Joe and I well enough to know that we don't ape Bryan/Dave.
Wasn't meant as a direct comp, FWIW. Just that it's one of those things that seems to permeate through wrestling fandom and seems to trace back to "plans change" becoming a, for lack of better term, meme.
Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:09 pm
You will never be able to convince me that we needed all of the bullshit leading to Becky/Charlotte/Ronda. If you can't tell the story of "ass-kicking babyface that the crowd loves vs. undefeated champion" without involving McMahon oversight/worked shoots/inserting someone else into the mix then you have lost your touch. Plain and simple.
The irony of this is, my theory is that at some point recently they've decided to "listen to the fans" more and, unfortunately, have done it on Twitter and if anything are becoming too 'in touch'.

Ronda (ala Brock) suddenly being booked as the outsider and part-timer who doesn't like and respect wrestling enough, after months of them going out of their way to fight that perception? Becky being booked as the new Stone Cold, after everyone said she was the new Stone Cold? Vince as the out of touch owner pulling people the fans want out of matches (twice) for someone he'd rather see? Throw in the Becky/Ronda Twitter beef, Kofi being in this role after people were disappointed he lost in the Rumble, the fact that they're playing up Ambrose leaving on screen and how that's not how they usually do business, plus the sheer amount of winks and nods in that Orton/AJ Styles promo... I don't think they're all coincidences.

They've dipped their toe in the water with this stuff before, particularly with Brock, but it definitely feels like they're dipping more in. I don't think this is just fallback McMahon Attitude Era booking, like Reigns/McMahon, I think there's a method. The fact the method is "play off of what Twitter is saying" doesn't thrill me with joy, but hey.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

Post by supersonic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:34 pm

Would it really hurt to allow the top title matches to have UFC style vignettes? Rousey and Lynch get their TV time that way and go over their various backgrounds and motivations. They work the closing dark matches too so the live crowd gets to see them still.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:35 am

“If you skipped this match because Nagata is in it, understandable”

Rich, Nagata was the MVP of his last G1, his singles matches (and a lot of his tags) are always worth watching. He’s awesome and always has been. If you’re skipping his matches it’s a death penalty offense.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:06 pm

Look, I agree but there are people that don't like Nagata! We hear it all the time. He's one of my favorites ever and I voted him in the Observer Hall of Fame. I don't skip Nagata matches but many do and many do because they can be formulaic at times. This wasn't. This was great.

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:09 pm

cbacon87 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:05 pm
The irony of this is, my theory is that at some point recently they've decided to "listen to the fans" more and, unfortunately, have done it on Twitter and if anything are becoming too 'in touch'.

Ronda (ala Brock) suddenly being booked as the outsider and part-timer who doesn't like and respect wrestling enough, after months of them going out of their way to fight that perception? Becky being booked as the new Stone Cold, after everyone said she was the new Stone Cold? Vince as the out of touch owner pulling people the fans want out of matches (twice) for someone he'd rather see? Throw in the Becky/Ronda Twitter beef, Kofi being in this role after people were disappointed he lost in the Rumble, the fact that they're playing up Ambrose leaving on screen and how that's not how they usually do business, plus the sheer amount of winks and nods in that Orton/AJ Styles promo... I don't think they're all coincidences.

They've dipped their toe in the water with this stuff before, particularly with Brock, but it definitely feels like they're dipping more in. I don't think this is just fallback McMahon Attitude Era booking, like Reigns/McMahon, I think there's a method. The fact the method is "play off of what Twitter is saying" doesn't thrill me with joy, but hey.
You aren't wrong at all. Vince McMahon being a loose cannon who rewrites the show as its happening is now WWE canon. His character is a loose cannon who changes the show on a whim. 2019 has been all about transparency for WWE in terms of their storytelling and that's good in some cases but stupid in others. With Becky/Ronda they really did complicate something so simple.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

Post by Jeff Hawkins » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:49 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:09 pm
This right here is what irks me about WWE storytelling and what I tried to put across on the show. I don't care the path, the result, whatever. The fact that stories for the last two decades have relied on a perform having to walk up to a McMahon hat in hand and ask for a chance/opportunity/shot has finally broken me. I'm sick of it. I'm over it. I want guys to get title matches because they are overwhelming great at what they do. I want them to get shots because they win a lot.
Every story is about corporate fealty and it's maddening. Within this "story about the making of a wrestling television show" what we're watching week after week is akin to cubicle drones and their office politics.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Fastlane, NJ Cup, Wally Yamaguchi & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:42 am

supersonic wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:34 pm
Would it really hurt to allow the top title matches to have UFC style vignettes? Rousey and Lynch get their TV time that way and go over their various backgrounds and motivations. They work the closing dark matches too so the live crowd gets to see them still.
One of the best thing the WWE does is their video production pre-tape packages. When they put even a little effort into it, they get people over without even having them cut a promo in front of a crowd or wrestling a single match.

They don't do it often enough.

But, that would require Vince and the brass to understand that they are creating content for television...that they are not a traveling circus. Vince still runs his company - which he loathes as a wrestling company - as a traveling circus where everyone, every week, must get a live glimpse at the Elephant and everyone, every week must see it perform the balancing act on the ball.

This lead up to WrestleMania should have been so simple. Hottest act in the company, an overly confident rebel character versus the most dominant woman in company history. You want to add Charlotte in there, you could do so without jumping through the hoops they jumped through to get there.

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