VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Talk about shows from the Voices of Wrestling podcast network and argue with us here.
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VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:40 pm

This week on the Voices of Wrestling Flagship Podcast we talk AAA's Rey de Reyes show and the huge news of The Young Bucks winning their tag titles, ROH's 17th Anniversary, AJPW's most recent Korakuen Hall show with an incredible main event between Miyahara and Nomura, we play the WrestleMania Weekend Game to see if Joe can identify Mania weekend shows (with burials aplenty) as well as a New Japan Cup catch-up.



MP3: https://audioboom.com/posts/7209081-vow ... d-more.mp3

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by mlev76 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:06 am

1) There's a reason they made a movie about White Castle. It's that dirty little secret so many of us have that we eat that 'food' and love it..until we don't. I've never made at home, but have many post drinking, post partying or simply 'craving' moments that I regretted physically but never mentally.

2) I think you were a bit harsh about the Collective shows overall and especially BLP. Now, I'm not about to defend any Swoggle match and have seen his shtick enough on the indies to last me a lifetime. But, these shows are giving some good talent a spotlight in a prime time and prime location that they may not have otherwise got. And while BLP is indie all the way and have many things I'm sure you'd cringe at, they've been one of the most consistently fun promotions I've gotten into since the streaming explosion. Plus, there's no way Yoshino/Gresham isn't going to rule.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by armsofsleep » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:16 pm

Agreed that some of these companies running Mania week are just putting out terrible cards with no talent.

I mean, a main event match with Jay White? Absolutely shameful.

Also, ooof at the dismissal without any research of the Young Studs vs La Familia de Tijuana match. Understandable that you might not know a team that really only tags in AIW, but Bestia 666 is one of the most popular indie brawlers in Mexico right now, and even is pretty well pushed in The Crash. Plus those two teams already main evented an AIW show last year in a deathmatch and it was really great. Get that AIW (and Mexico as a whole) might be blindspots, but weird to specifically single that match out as "bad" without knowing anything about the participants.
Last edited by armsofsleep on Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by FilipPejic » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:26 pm

IWS is a Quebec promotion where Kevin Ownes, Sami Zayn and 3.0 got their starts in wrestling. The Mexican death match will be decent cause it’s bestia 666 and Damian 666 against Eric Ryan and Bobby Beverly decent wrestlers. I’m pretty sure Rich saw Eric Ryan wrestle live in GCW when they were in Chicago
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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:29 pm

armsofsleep wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:16 pm
Agreed that some of these companies running Mania week are just putting out terrible cards with no talent.

I mean, a main event match with Jay White? Absolutely shameful.

Also, ooof at the dismissal without any research of the Young Studs vs La Familia de Tijuana match. Understandable that you might not know a team that really only tags in AIW, but Bestia 666 is one of the most popular indie brawlers in Mexico right now, and even is pretty well pushed in The Crash. Plus those two teams already main evented an AIW show last year in a deathmatch and it was really great. Get that AIW (and Mexico as a whole) might be blindspots, but weird to specifically single that match out as "bad" without knowing anything about the participants.
The bit wasn't "Bad" matches. I think we both said we weren't familiar with the teams. The bit was matches that would make it hard to identify which card they were on.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by FilipPejic » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:11 pm

Looks John Thorne of AIW is pissed at you guys because of the flagship, where joe essentially saying he wanted the collective to fail
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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by supersonic » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:09 am

Bottom line is that perhaps thanks to Takeover getting the spot, there's absolutely nothing outside WWE that looks to be as fucking phenomenal of a complete package Mania piggybacking like Dragon Gate Challenge, Supercard of Honor, Better Than Our Best, and Supercard of Honor II. You can argue Supercard of Honor III belongs in that category if you're willing to overlook the creative burnout at the time.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:08 am

FilipPejic wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:11 pm
Looks John Thorne of AIW is pissed at you guys because of the flagship, where joe essentially saying he wanted the collective to fail
No. He said some shows should fail. He did not say The Collective should fail.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by mlev76 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:28 am

Rich Kraetsch wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:08 am
FilipPejic wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:11 pm
Looks John Thorne of AIW is pissed at you guys because of the flagship, where joe essentially saying he wanted the collective to fail
No. He said some shows should fail. He did not say The Collective should fail.
He said AIW should stick to Cleveland and was exceedingly harsh to the Collective shows as a whole. The irony is a lot of the things that are now being deemed ripoffs by some of the Collective shows as a whole were originated in places like AIW and they and BLP are putting on shows that are consistent with their typical shows.

There are plenty of shows to lament which really do feel like they're leeching off the big boys, but I really think the Collective promotions are not that. Maybe the lineups are not for you, but I think they will do ok.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:36 am

FilipPejic wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:11 pm
Looks John Thorne of AIW is pissed at you guys because of the flagship, where joe essentially saying he wanted the collective to fail
I don't know John Thorne, have never interacted with him (beyond putting over his podcast in the early days, which I enjoy), and have nothing against him. He can be mad at me if he wants, people get mad at us all the time (privately & publicly), that comes with the territory of doing what we do. I get it, and I get why he'd be annoyed.

Bottom line is AIW didn't get 1/100th of the scorn some other places got. We praised some shows, killed others, and did a lot of riffing when we played the game. If someone wants to get all bent out of shape because I said "Go back to Cleveland" after the Swoggle/Steiner bit, I couldn't care less. That means they either don't understand the tone/feel of the show and what we do, or they are very think skinned to critique.

For everyone MAD ONLINE and transcribing us, I notice nobody is transcribing the part where I said "(the show) isn't that bad" when Rich said it was terrible, me defending the Kingston/Ohtani match (even though it isn't something i'm jazzed about), etc.

Thorne very clearly didn't even listen when he made the first tweet, in fact he admitted so. If you listen and you want to bury us, go for it. All of you know that. We are fair game.

Thorne and some of the AIW fans are taking this very personally, which to some extent I get, but the "wanting shows to fail" thing, which I 100% said and will never back off of, was said as a general point as a "survival of the fittest" type idea, and I absolutely did not cite any specific promotions. It's a nuanced distinction, but at the end of the day I really couldn't care less if Thorne or some fans understand that or are angry at me. My job is to be honest and entertaining. Sometimes things get caught in the crossfire. It'll be someone else annoyed next time.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by SuperplexlariatBW » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:47 am

You know the indie talent well is running dry when Bryan Alvarez is getting booked on shows.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by Ckkj14 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:04 am

100% agree with Joes take. Maybe he could have worded it in a way to not offended anyone (not that he's bothered i'm sure) but looking at some of these cards, they are terrible. Taking out the WWE/NJPW stuff what bog matches are people looking forward to this weekend? From the stuff i'm attending only Ospreay v Bandido stands out.

I'm actually looking forward to it more as a holiday in New York wit a bit of wrestling thrown in rather than big days of wrestling like before. 1 show a day will do me this time

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:52 pm

I hope Lanza doesn't apologize for a single thing he said in his Mania Weekend rant. He is 100% correct. I am one of the potential Mania Weekend visitors that this turns off to the point I won't waste my money on this filth.

The Flagship is correct...its oversaturated now. Everyone trying to leach off the weekend and coming with Swoggle type nonsense.

Not only do events like this oversaturate the market, it weakens everything else. I didn't go to the Orlando Weekend shows two years ago (or whenever it was) because nothing got me motivated to go. Watching Keith Lee 7 times isn't great, no matter how awesome he is. At some point, you know this man doesn't care about the random Darby Allin match he's in so why should I? The cards of even the BIG BOYS are weakened by this type of nonsense.

I'm over it and won't go to a Mania Weekend for the foreseeable future because of the oversaturation of the weekend.

All I want...Mania, NXT, an Evolve double shot, a ROH show, some Kaiju Big Battel, a Joey Janela event...maybe one more event that is unique that gives me an outlet to see some talent I've never seen before (maybe a lucha show?). Anything beyond that, go away.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by mlev76 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:21 pm

BoxingRobes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:52 pm
I hope Lanza doesn't apologize for a single thing he said in his Mania Weekend rant. He is 100% correct. I am one of the potential Mania Weekend visitors that this turns off to the point I won't waste my money on this filth.

The Flagship is correct...its oversaturated now. Everyone trying to leach off the weekend and coming with Swoggle type nonsense.

Not only do events like this oversaturate the market, it weakens everything else. I didn't go to the Orlando Weekend shows two years ago (or whenever it was) because nothing got me motivated to go. Watching Keith Lee 7 times isn't great, no matter how awesome he is. At some point, you know this man doesn't care about the random Darby Allin match he's in so why should I? The cards of even the BIG BOYS are weakened by this type of nonsense.

I'm over it and won't go to a Mania Weekend for the foreseeable future because of the oversaturation of the weekend.

All I want...Mania, NXT, an Evolve double shot, a ROH show, some Kaiju Big Battel, a Joey Janela event...maybe one more event that is unique that gives me an outlet to see some talent I've never seen before (maybe a lucha show?). Anything beyond that, go away.
Oversaturation hurts only if every promotion is using the same group of guys and with few exceptions, there's not a ton of cross-pollination this year. Part of this is because there aren't a ton of "big names" to be used and part of it is likely some form of exclusivity built into whatever contracts the promotions have with their talent. There are obvious exceptions and some guys on the margins working across the board, but I'm curious which specific guys people are claiming are burning the candle at both ends with bookings? Generally (and we don't know who will show up at Wrestlcon, so that's an unknown), while there are more shows, most wrestlers are working less.

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Re: VOW Flagship: Young Bucks & AAA, AJPW, Mania Weekend & more!

Post by BoxingRobes » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:00 pm

mlev76 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:21 pm
BoxingRobes wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:52 pm
I hope Lanza doesn't apologize for a single thing he said in his Mania Weekend rant. He is 100% correct. I am one of the potential Mania Weekend visitors that this turns off to the point I won't waste my money on this filth.

The Flagship is correct...its oversaturated now. Everyone trying to leach off the weekend and coming with Swoggle type nonsense.

Not only do events like this oversaturate the market, it weakens everything else. I didn't go to the Orlando Weekend shows two years ago (or whenever it was) because nothing got me motivated to go. Watching Keith Lee 7 times isn't great, no matter how awesome he is. At some point, you know this man doesn't care about the random Darby Allin match he's in so why should I? The cards of even the BIG BOYS are weakened by this type of nonsense.

I'm over it and won't go to a Mania Weekend for the foreseeable future because of the oversaturation of the weekend.

All I want...Mania, NXT, an Evolve double shot, a ROH show, some Kaiju Big Battel, a Joey Janela event...maybe one more event that is unique that gives me an outlet to see some talent I've never seen before (maybe a lucha show?). Anything beyond that, go away.
Oversaturation hurts only if every promotion is using the same group of guys and with few exceptions, there's not a ton of cross-pollination this year. Part of this is because there aren't a ton of "big names" to be used and part of it is likely some form of exclusivity built into whatever contracts the promotions have with their talent. There are obvious exceptions and some guys on the margins working across the board, but I'm curious which specific guys people are claiming are burning the candle at both ends with bookings? Generally (and we don't know who will show up at Wrestlcon, so that's an unknown), while there are more shows, most wrestlers are working less.
Oversaturation hurts in any incarnation...last year and in the previous few years it was oversaturation of talent that worked show after show after show and the end result was a lack of quality. Why would I take a crazy trip across the country to see some three star run-of-the-mill work?

This year, due to the lack of talent and what talent being available has some sort of exclusivity in some way...its now just an oversaturation of shows...and those shows are using some ham'n'egger talent.

I used to go to Mania Weekend for a fun, not overly complicated weekend (path was clear and simple) celebrating wrestling and everyone generally brought their A-game. The DGUSA shows with the multimans, big, built-to dream matches (Gargano v. SHINGO), opportunities to see some rare appearance type talent (Shingo, CIMA, Doi, etc)...

Now, its just a money grab for everyone involved and the quality across the board lacks. Last year, there was one match that was one that rewarded the traveler...Riddle v. Ospraey. Everything else...I'd be very upset if I paid for that. And I don't mind the "specialty" shows (Janela, Bloodsport, Pancakes n Piledrivers, Kaiju)...they make the weekend. But we've got the point where bumfuck Indie from Nowheresville, USA is trying to run shows that weekend all over the place. No thanks. Hard pass.

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