WWE 2016 Cuts

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rovert
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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by rovert » Mon May 23, 2016 10:25 am

Oh

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by mlev76 » Mon May 23, 2016 11:56 am

supersonic wrote:
DETROIT_KEJB wrote:It seems like a lot of the guys are a bit sour that their spots are starting to move toward the new guys. I get a hint of that here, same as Ryback.
There NEVER should've been an underground golden age after the War. What we're seeing is what should've been happening about a dozen years ago - the likes of Punk, Steen, Styles, Generico, Black, Danielson, etc. have gotten the breaks that were wasted for so many years on duds like La Resistance, Deuce & Domino, Ken Anderson, and Elijah Burke. The likes of Ryback, Ziggler, Cody, and even Sandow have become even more exposed with superior underground talents breaking through. Think of how dry the new blood scene in WWE was after the 2002 class.
WWE started down the developmental route before the war ended, so the seeds were already planted. And in terms of going right after independent talent, I don't think it was, contextually, the wrong decision then. To go right to people whose biggest experience in the US were indies would have taken a very radical mind, something you wouldn't expect out of an organization so set in their ways visa vis talent.

TNA was able to take more of a chance and did on a lot of these talents and WWE allowed them to serve as the proverbial petri dish for a while. Should WWE started more actively recruiting the indies once Punk got over? yes and to an extent, they did. But the idea that WWE should've known all these guys were the future in 2002 is a bit of a rewrite of history.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by supersonic » Mon May 23, 2016 12:26 pm

At the latest it should've been implemented for the ECW relaunch, with that brand being what NXT is now. Heyman had the Sapolsky connection, so ROH could've been what Evolve is now as a feeder system, but even better with deeper storylines.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by mprentice84 » Mon May 23, 2016 2:52 pm

Rhodes wasn't a top guy by any means, but that doesn't mean he was worthless. All the guy wanted was an incentive to show up for work. Like he said, the money is nice, but that's a non-factor if you look at the big picture. These guys are famous pro wrestlers, but I can imagine that getting pegged as a nothing guy with no means to change that is just as soul crushing as being stuck in an office cubicle for 9 hours a day.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon May 23, 2016 3:38 pm

I have advocated this for years but why don't they have Main Event, Superstars specific titles and storylines? SmackDown specific stuff? Dedicated writers for each of these shows and long term stories built within the confines of these shows. Sure, things could get muddy and you COULD have guys doing stuff on one show that interfere with what they do on another but I feel like a little communication could solve this. The point being, these guys having stories, titles, programs, etc. to sink their teeth into would do wonders. Right now guys will integrate some of their own stories within the matches on Main Event or whatever and that's well and good but without buy-in from the company at large, you're still just spinning your wheels. It's similar to the demotion to NXT thing that has helped a few careers already (Ryder, Emma and Kidd most notably), these people, regardless of whether they are wrestling in front of 12k or 1,200 just want something that makes them feel fulfilled. Makes it feel like they aren't just a cog in the system.

I don't like Rhodes, but he's echoing many of thoughts others who have departed have. Give us SOMETHING to do, ANYTHING.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by ayaashm » Mon May 23, 2016 3:43 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:I have advocated this for years but why don't they have Main Event, Superstars specific titles and storylines? SmackDown specific stuff? Dedicated writers for each of these shows and long term stories built within the confines of these shows. Sure, things could get muddy and you COULD have guys doing stuff on one show that interfere with what they do on another but I feel like a little communication could solve this. The point being, these guys having stories, titles, programs, etc. to sink their teeth into would do wonders. Right now guys will integrate some of their own stories within the matches on Main Event or whatever and that's well and good but without buy-in from the company at large, you're still just spinning your wheels. It's similar to the demotion to NXT thing that has helped a few careers already (Ryder, Emma and Kidd most notably), these people, regardless of whether they are wrestling in front of 12k or 1,200 just want something that makes them feel fulfilled. Makes it feel like they aren't just a cog in the system.

I don't like Rhodes, but he's echoing many of thoughts others who have departed have. Give us SOMETHING to do, ANYTHING.

I thought Rhodes was okay, sometimes good. I agree small feuds on Superstars and Main Event could keep lower card wrestlers occupied. I was listening to an old show and Lanza mentioned how Titus had a small time feud on Superstars and it was good. So did Alicia and Emma and they had 3 matches, 7-8 minutes in length and every match built from the other. So, it's not like they can't but that they are too lazy to put an effort into these shows.
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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon May 23, 2016 3:47 pm

I don't know for a fact but I feel like most of that is the guys just saying "Hey, we're facing one another for the next 5 weeks, let's do something here" and less direction from the company. It's fake buy-in if anything. Real devotion to making fluid, coherent stories that these guys and girls can actually feel fulfilled is the key.

It'll never happen though, despite the fact that they employ an army of writers.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by mlev76 » Mon May 23, 2016 3:58 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:I don't know for a fact but I feel like most of that is the guys just saying "Hey, we're facing one another for the next 5 weeks, let's do something here" and less direction from the company. It's fake buy-in if anything. Real devotion to making fluid, coherent stories that these guys and girls can actually feel fulfilled is the key.

It'll never happen though, despite the fact that they employ an army of writers.
Maybe I'm alone in reading it as "I should be a main eventer and since I'm not, I'm going to take a chance of finding somewhere else that might give me a chance."

It may seem like I'm picking on Cody, but when you look at the opportunities he has had, he was given many chances to breakthrough that most of the roster would kill for. And he didn't get any further than the peak of his talents (IMO).

I believe he's uniquely situated to go out and try to prove them wrong given the likelihood that absent a major fuck up on his side, he will almost certainly be welcomed back with open arms. Having a father who is a legend both in the biz and in the company provides a great amount of freedom to do this.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Mon May 23, 2016 4:17 pm

Oh, I'm 100% with you w/r/t to Cody. I'm talking a more macro sense of these guys dying on the vine and begging to have some opportunity or to at least be heard on issues they have or ideas. Cody was given EVERY opportunity to be something and it never clicked, largely due to what I'd consider mediocre/boring in-ring work. Still, nobody should feel like a run of Main Event matches is the end of the line and the death sentence. If there were fun things going on with those shows or you know, they were mentioned by WWE as actually occurring, then guys wouldn't feel like it's a 100% complete demotion. NXT was able to become that for guys, there's no reason Main Event, Superstars, etc. couldn't as well.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by ayaashm » Mon May 23, 2016 4:20 pm

mlev76 wrote:
Rich Kraetsch wrote:I don't know for a fact but I feel like most of that is the guys just saying "Hey, we're facing one another for the next 5 weeks, let's do something here" and less direction from the company. It's fake buy-in if anything. Real devotion to making fluid, coherent stories that these guys and girls can actually feel fulfilled is the key.

It'll never happen though, despite the fact that they employ an army of writers.
Maybe I'm alone in reading it as "I should be a main eventer and since I'm not, I'm going to take a chance of finding somewhere else that might give me a chance."

It may seem like I'm picking on Cody, but when you look at the opportunities he has had, he was given many chances to breakthrough that most of the roster would kill for. And he didn't get any further than the peak of his talents (IMO).

I believe he's uniquely situated to go out and try to prove them wrong given the likelihood that absent a major fuck up on his side, he will almost certainly be welcomed back with open arms. Having a father who is a legend both in the biz and in the company provides a great amount of freedom to do this.


I thought Cody should've won MitB not Sandow and if he squandered that opportunity I would say he got a chance but realistically speaking, he never got a chance to be a top-guy for some reason.
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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by H.U.S.T.L.E. » Mon May 23, 2016 4:23 pm

Ok, to detour things for a bit... what are Cody's realistic options if he wants to pursue his main event dreams and prove to WWE that he was right?

As much as I enjoy Drew Galloway's work post-WWE, is he any closer to actually getting a second chance with the company? He's certainly on their radar being tied into EVOLVE, but I've heard no chatter about the company being interested in re-signing him. Hell, does Galloway even want it?

It seems to me that if your goal is to become a major player in WWE but you're outside the system, it's New Japan or bust if you want to prove your worth. Would Cody even get that call? Certainly seems like he's got enough guys in the locker room on his side and the weight of the Rhodes name might mean something to New Japan brass (though I have zero clue what Dusty's rep was in Japan). I have no clue if that's an option for Cody though.

The post-WWE careers of Cody Rhodes and Ryback (if he truly ends up gone like everyone expects) will be fascinating to follow.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by ayaashm » Mon May 23, 2016 4:23 pm

mlev76 wrote:
Rich Kraetsch wrote:I don't know for a fact but I feel like most of that is the guys just saying "Hey, we're facing one another for the next 5 weeks, let's do something here" and less direction from the company. It's fake buy-in if anything. Real devotion to making fluid, coherent stories that these guys and girls can actually feel fulfilled is the key.

It'll never happen though, despite the fact that they employ an army of writers.
Maybe I'm alone in reading it as "I should be a main eventer and since I'm not, I'm going to take a chance of finding somewhere else that might give me a chance."

It may seem like I'm picking on Cody, but when you look at the opportunities he has had, he was given many chances to breakthrough that most of the roster would kill for. And he didn't get any further than the peak of his talents (IMO).

I believe he's uniquely situated to go out and try to prove them wrong given the likelihood that absent a major fuck up on his side, he will almost certainly be welcomed back with open arms. Having a father who is a legend both in the biz and in the company provides a great amount of
freedom to do this.


Because I only started watching wrestling since 2013 maybe I'm missing something, but, when in Legacy did anyone else come off as remotely a big of a star than Randy Orton? Didn't he beat clean both Rhodes and Dibiase Jr. at Mania? Was he ever given the Orton -level push ?

Again, I don't particularly care for him but I also don't believe he got a chance to be a top guy.
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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by ayaashm » Mon May 23, 2016 4:29 pm

H.U.S.T.L.E. wrote:Ok, to detour things for a bit... what are Cody's realistic options if he wants to pursue his main event dreams and prove to WWE that he was right?

As much as I enjoy Drew Galloway's work post-WWE, is he any closer to actually getting a second chance with the company? He's certainly on their radar being tied into EVOLVE, but I've heard no chatter about the company being interested in re-signing him. Hell, does Galloway even want it?

It seems to me that if your goal is to become a major player in WWE but you're outside the system, it's New Japan or bust if you want to prove your worth. Would Cody even get that call? Certainly seems like he's got enough guys in the locker room on his side and the weight of the Rhodes name might mean something to New Japan brass (though I have zero clue what Dusty's rep was in Japan). I have no clue if that's an option for Cody though.

The post-WWE careers of Cody Rhodes and Ryback (if he truly ends up gone like everyone expects) will be fascinating to follow.


If he wants to wrestle then I think he hits the big indies for a bit (PWG, AAW?, RevPro) and if he catches on he gets called back but I think one way or another he ends with New Japan. Meltz mentioned he's one of the smartest in the biz and with D-Bry your best friend, you will be guided well.
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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by mlev76 » Mon May 23, 2016 4:41 pm

ayaashm wrote:
mlev76 wrote:
Rich Kraetsch wrote:I don't know for a fact but I feel like most of that is the guys just saying "Hey, we're facing one another for the next 5 weeks, let's do something here" and less direction from the company. It's fake buy-in if anything. Real devotion to making fluid, coherent stories that these guys and girls can actually feel fulfilled is the key.

It'll never happen though, despite the fact that they employ an army of writers.
Maybe I'm alone in reading it as "I should be a main eventer and since I'm not, I'm going to take a chance of finding somewhere else that might give me a chance."

It may seem like I'm picking on Cody, but when you look at the opportunities he has had, he was given many chances to breakthrough that most of the roster would kill for. And he didn't get any further than the peak of his talents (IMO).

I believe he's uniquely situated to go out and try to prove them wrong given the likelihood that absent a major fuck up on his side, he will almost certainly be welcomed back with open arms. Having a father who is a legend both in the biz and in the company provides a great amount of
freedom to do this.


Because I only started watching wrestling since 2013 maybe I'm missing something, but, when in Legacy did anyone else come off as remotely a big of a star than Randy Orton? Didn't he beat clean both Rhodes and Dibiase Jr. at Mania? Was he ever given the Orton -level push ?

Again, I don't particularly care for him but I also don't believe he got a chance to be a top guy.
Cody, from 2010-2012 or so, was given a fairly decent run as a singles star both with a long IC title run and several singles matches at Mania (he beat Rey Mysterio in 2011). It was just below main event, but he was pushed and fairly protected.

I also think there were more legs with his team with Dustin that were cut off in pursuit of the Mania match between the two that never came to be.

So, while he wasn't put in an Orton level spot (he's never gotten the reac†ions Orton has), he was not that far from the main event.

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Re: WWE 2016 Cuts

Post by rovert » Mon May 23, 2016 4:43 pm

WWE just announced the following:

"WWE has granted Adam Rose’s request to be released, as of today, May 23, 2016. WWE wishes Rose the best in all his future endeavors."

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