WWE (Discussion)

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
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supersonic
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:07 am

mlev76 wrote:
supersonic wrote:Considering he was willing to start in low places (NXT and Cruiserweight Division,) the idea that he'd expect to become a sudden top guy sounds like fantasy hating.

If anything, he probably just realized it was time to move up to a solid midcard spot. After all, what's Balor doing right now? Oh that's right - not booked for a PPV. Balor, Miz, and Ambrose could've all worked programs with Aries in the past month and they would've been both fresh and effective.

So he views himself as better than being slotted parallel to Kendrick? News flash - he IS superior to such a bit player role. Lastly, fuck off to anyone that questions his awareness of his excellence and the substantial opportunities that should come with that, when a total gassed up scrub is holding the company's most historic title with the false hopes that his ethnicity will help penetrate a largely populated market.
Aries had been working as a cruiserweight (with three PPV appearances) since February. It's hardly like he was on the main roster for a year plus and made no progress. Whether he is superior or not isn't actually relevant; no one is entitled to specific slot and there is no secret sauce to being guaranteed a great position especially when you are undersized by WWE standards.

I'm quite taken by the interesting timing of his release when coupled with a week where a former tag team partner (Strong), a similarly talented but small star (Styles) and the man he beat in his breakthrough match (Joe) all have had tremendous success in WWE well beyond what their size and look constraints would have likely allowed a few years ago. And I can only conclude that attitude and a belief that you can earn success but won't be gifted it does work even in the WWE.

And as for your gratuitous slam at Jinder, it's clear he made the most of an opportunity, impressed the right people (Big Show was a big advocate for him earlier in the year) and has kept the right people happy to keep his push going. And he started in the same slot as Curt Hawkins. You and others may not like his work or the choice that was made, but he took advantage of an opportunity given while it appears Aries has decided he is unable to continue to work to do the same.
Bullshit, he knows his worth just like Punk did from Day 1. His only sin wasn't having Paul Heyman or someone similar as his backstage advocate to navigate through the oversensitive carnies. He made the most of his opportunities and brought his working boots - this isn't Mistico, in which there's all the superstar attitude, barely any of the actual work ethic.

Now only if you wanna argue that this this is karma for his contributions to the toxic locker room and bullying culture of Pearce-era ROH, then you'd be on to something. But by all accounts he seems to have largely grown up from that, now he's just a highly confident individual that won't waste time being positioned at the same level as Kendrick, who has never been excellent and reliable enough to carry a company on any level.

Not everyone has to be willing to eat shit with a smile like Danielson. I could easily see WWE potentially wasting a whole year with Aries just like was done with Danielson actually; that's a sin that I will never forgive the company for.

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armsofsleep
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by armsofsleep » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:59 pm

Let's pump the brakes a bit, especially on the Danielson comparison. Not going to touch on his attitude or whatever but let's be real, his best work was as a commentator. He didn't have any memorable matches in NXT before being injured, and routinely underperformed in the CW division. I know it hasn't exactly been a hot brand, but Neville, Ali, Gallagher, and others have shown up in big spots and put on ****+ matches. I can't even remember the last **** match Aries had.

Saying that "wasting" a year of a 39 year old Aries who wasn't putting on great matches and wasn't super over is the same as wasting a year of a 28 year old once in a generation talent is just a little bit weird. I get that Aries probably could've gotten some opportunities based on reputation (like Roode and Joe did) but let's not pretend that he deserves an IC title run because he had a great match against Nigel 10 years ago. Not when the company has the most talent it's ever had on the roster.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by mlev76 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:40 pm

Rich Kraetsch wrote:I thought putting him against Big Show immediately was as bad a choice as having Mike Awesome get in the ring with Kevin Nash during his initial WCW appearances.

Cass is big among the current roster. An absolute monster. Show him in contrast to the current guys, not someone from another era who is bigger than him. I know the long game is he beats Big Show but a) i'm dubious on the amount of cache beating Big Show has in 2017 and b) i don't like the optics of someone being taller them him, in particular if the gimmick is, as Jeff has dubbed it, "I'm tall, I should be a star"
Nash was neither as generous or as capable of putting someone over as Show is. Show also did a very good job in a similar spot with Braun (though Braun>Cass, so it may not be an exact crossover).

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mlev76
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by mlev76 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:51 pm

supersonic wrote:
Bullshit, he knows his worth just like Punk did from Day 1. His only sin wasn't having Paul Heyman or someone similar as his backstage advocate to navigate through the oversensitive carnies. He made the most of his opportunities and brought his working boots - this isn't Mistico, in which there's all the superstar attitude, barely any of the actual work ethic.

Now only if you wanna argue that this this is karma for his contributions to the toxic locker room and bullying culture of Pearce-era ROH, then you'd be on to something. But by all accounts he seems to have largely grown up from that, now he's just a highly confident individual that won't waste time being positioned at the same level as Kendrick, who has never been excellent and reliable enough to carry a company on any level.

Not everyone has to be willing to eat shit with a smile like Danielson. I could easily see WWE potentially wasting a whole year with Aries just like was done with Danielson actually; that's a sin that I will never forgive the company for.
1) Punk went to developmental and then ECW and didn't make the "main roster" until almost two years after he was signed with the company. It was an additional three years after that he was truly pushed as a legit main eventer going forward. Aries was with the company for less than two years. You can talk the advantages Punk had, but one that you failed to mention was patience. And granted, Aries is older today than Punk was then, but realistically, where else is he going to go where he hasn't already done it all? Maybe NJPW?

2) To me, it seems like a fairly straightforward deal-he didn't want to accept the role they saw him in and they didn't want to push him beyond that (at least currently).

3) Danielson "eating shit with a smile" got him a main event slot at Summerslam and Wrestlemania in a 12 month period. Was some time wasted, which is now even more sad? Most definitely. But, we didn't know that then and neither did Bryan. He could very easily not come back in 2010 and gone back to the indies, but he clearly trusted his talent to get him to where eventually ended up.

And therein lies the difference between guys like Bryan, Punk, Joe and Owens and guys like Aries. Absolutely 100% believe he should do what's best for him, but also 100% believe he will regret quitting and not finding another way to change minds.

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supersonic
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:00 pm

Whereas I believe that with NJPW expansion, a year or so away of motivated performances will get him back to WWE. Seemed like no coincidence this came right after Long Beach actually, especially if he asked or pushed company to wanna release him.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by mlev76 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:03 pm

supersonic wrote:Whereas I believe that with NJPW expansion, a year or so away of motivated performances will get him back to WWE. Seemed like no coincidence this came right after Long Beach actually, especially if he asked or pushed company to wanna release him.
Perhaps, but I don't know that we can assume he shows up in New Japan and suddenly leapfrogs the existing gaijin in either the heavyweight or junior heavyweight division. Timing is everything and right now, they're pretty stacked talent wise. So is WWE. The only guaranteed chance for him to be at a level higher than he was in WWE is probably ROH or GFW. And I don't even think THAT'S a sure thing.

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armsofsleep
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by armsofsleep » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:14 pm

NJPW has a roster that's almost as loaded as WWE's but way less time to actually put people on screens. Zack Sabre Jr is a top 10 in-ring wrestler in the world and basically got slotted in as "lower midcard heavyweight". Not sure how Aries tops out as anything better than "BOSJ spot" in NJPW. MAYBE if Aries came into EVOLVE and tore it up or became a main event guy in ROH guy he could build his stock, but I'm pretty sure he's a known commodity at this point.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by rovert » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:31 pm

Aries is never, ever returning to WWE. Eventually the circumstances of his firing will come out. You guys are wasting your time discussing this trust me.

Supersonics posts are very 10 years ago ROH forum uber smark.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by armsofsleep » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:44 pm

rovert wrote:Aries is never, ever returning to WWE. Eventually the circumstances of his firing will come out. You guys are wasting your time discussing this trust me.

Supersonics posts are very 10 years ago ROH forum uber smark.
rovey give us the goods. Where was his firing on the scandalous scale with the low end being "Chris Hero got fired for being fat but not really" to "Hulk Hogan"

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supersonic
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:09 pm

Vince couldn't help but be butthurt upon being totally schooled on the fact that there are no moral or intellectual reasons to eat steak.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by rovert » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:12 am

supersonic wrote:Vince couldn't help but be butthurt upon being totally schooled on the fact that there are no moral or intellectual reasons to eat steak.
Are you off the meds recently?

Aries is a complete and utter asshole.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by mlev76 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:09 pm

supersonic wrote:Vince couldn't help but be butthurt upon being totally schooled on the fact that there are no moral or intellectual reasons to eat steak.
The moral and intellectual reason to eat steak is that it's greatest food known to mankind and is delicious.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:40 pm

rovert wrote:
supersonic wrote:Vince couldn't help but be butthurt upon being totally schooled on the fact that there are no moral or intellectual reasons to eat steak.
Are you off the meds recently?

Aries is a complete and utter asshole.
I find him to be a decent person and our brief interactions have always been pleasant, as we share very similar ethics.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by rovert » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:40 pm

supersonic wrote:
rovert wrote:
supersonic wrote:Vince couldn't help but be butthurt upon being totally schooled on the fact that there are no moral or intellectual reasons to eat steak.
Are you off the meds recently?

Aries is a complete and utter asshole.
I find him to be a decent person and our brief interactions have always been pleasant, as we share very similar ethics.
And you are known as an even kneel dude.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:41 pm

mlev76 wrote:
supersonic wrote:Vince couldn't help but be butthurt upon being totally schooled on the fact that there are no moral or intellectual reasons to eat steak.
The moral and intellectual reason to eat steak is that it's greatest food known to mankind and is delicious.
The "it pleases the senses and we're more powerful than them anyway" crutch, assuming this wasn't a playful response I misread.

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