Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

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Bix
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Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by Bix » Sat May 28, 2016 5:39 pm

What makes modern wrestling modern?

What makes non-modern wrestling dated?

What wrestling is so advanced as to be postmodern?

I feel like I need an education as to this matter, as I have clearly not sufficiently modernized my tastes in professional wrestling.

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mlev76
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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by mlev76 » Sat May 28, 2016 5:47 pm

Is this a real question or snark being tossed out as a receipt for the comments you get?

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Bix
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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by Bix » Sat May 28, 2016 5:49 pm

mlev76 wrote:Is this a real question or snark being tossed out as a receipt for the comments you get?
Both, actually.

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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by mlev76 » Sat May 28, 2016 5:52 pm

Bix wrote:
mlev76 wrote:Is this a real question or snark being tossed out as a receipt for the comments you get?
Both, actually.
Well, to answer the real question, modern wrestling is typified by what you see in currently existing promotions. You can make the case that the major NA promotions have a certain style, there is a US indie style, lucha, Japanese style, etc.

Obviously, if you watch a PPV from the 80s and compare it to today or tv from then and now, the style,psychology and work are different.

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Bix
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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by Bix » Sat May 28, 2016 7:28 pm

mlev76 wrote:
Bix wrote:
mlev76 wrote:Is this a real question or snark being tossed out as a receipt for the comments you get?
Both, actually.
Well, to answer the real question, modern wrestling is typified by what you see in currently existing promotions. You can make the case that the major NA promotions have a certain style, there is a US indie style, lucha, Japanese style, etc.

Obviously, if you watch a PPV from the 80s and compare it to today or tv from then and now, the style,psychology and work are different.
What exactly is the line between a different style and bad work/psychology? Crowds reacting? Drawing money? Cultural differences? Feels like there's a slippery slope to "How dare you say John Zandig can't work/has bad psychology, he's working his own modern style that you don't understand."

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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by mlev76 » Sat May 28, 2016 8:00 pm

Bix wrote:
mlev76 wrote:
Bix wrote: Both, actually.
Well, to answer the real question, modern wrestling is typified by what you see in currently existing promotions. You can make the case that the major NA promotions have a certain style, there is a US indie style, lucha, Japanese style, etc.

Obviously, if you watch a PPV from the 80s and compare it to today or tv from then and now, the style,psychology and work are different.
What exactly is the line between a different style and bad work/psychology? Crowds reacting? Drawing money? Cultural differences? Feels like there's a slippery slope to "How dare you say John Zandig can't work/has bad psychology, he's working his own modern style that you don't understand."
The line is in the eye of the beholder. That said, certain things become more commonly acceptable when they are viewed positively on a mass scale. But, as long as enough people pay to see something, different strokes for different folks.

I do find it rather silly when people complain about modern wrestling not conforming to the norms of past wrestling when, if you actually dig deep enough, you find most modern tropes are just the evolution of past tropes.

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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by ScorpioCorp » Sun May 29, 2016 2:39 am

On a mass scale, I believe there are 3 aspects that has made pro wrestling more modernised:

Increased moves: The number of different moves being incorporated in a match has increased. Likely as a result of wrestling moving towards a more athletic spectacle than the simplistic approach in the past when wrestling was treated as realistic.

Increased speed: There are more faster paced matches now than in previous generations. Also as a result of more emphasis on atheletism from people like Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, Kota Ibushi, Seth Rollins, Kenny Omega, Ricochet, Young Bucks, Dragon Gate guys etc.

Combinations of wrestling styles: There are more wrestlers that incorporate a combination of different wrestling styles. An example is Dragon Gate guys combining puroesu & lucha libre styles.

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Buzz Sawyer
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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by Buzz Sawyer » Sun May 29, 2016 6:11 am

I think that moves aren't put together for the most part anymore and guys are more interested in getting their moves over then anything else. No one works a body part anymore like the Andersons. Teams like the young bucks bore the fuck out of me with their high spots for the sake of having a high spot. Make the move mean something.
Who's Rob Viper ?

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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by ayaashm » Sun May 29, 2016 9:28 am

Buzz Sawyer wrote:I think that moves aren't put together for the most part anymore and guys are more interested in getting their moves over then anything else. No one works a body part anymore like the Andersons. Teams like the young bucks bore the fuck out of me with their high spots for the sake of having a high spot. Make the move mean something.

On the contrary, I am a relatively newer wrestling fan. My first ever match that I remember watching was CM Punk x Brock Lesnar. To me, Young Bucks are the most entertaining team in wrestling. I can not pull my eyes away from the screen when they're on. It's like their stomps,back rakes,taunts mean so much more than any other wrestler's. I feel that they are a true example of a team who have the "music between the notes".
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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by mlev76 » Sun May 29, 2016 11:42 am

On the whole, I actual think the answer to Bix's question is less about actual in ring work or booking, but one's attitude to the current day product.

Today, we have ready access to wrestling from every corner of the world, much of it available live or shortly thereafter. This includes vastly different styles all being employed currently. In addition, between the streaming services and Youtube, there is ready access to four+ decades of footage, again from many corners of the world. So, a new up and coming wrestler could easily pattern their style after an older style.

Th anti-modern attitude of "this guy doesn't know how to work" or "that's not wrestling" or "they're exposing the business (but I once wrestled a ninja turtle" is really where I think the modern reality of wrestling comes up. When WWE is becoming more open minded but many still cling to their own limited definition of what wrestling is, then you really are out of touch with both modern wrestling and modern fandom.

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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by ayaashm » Sun May 29, 2016 12:25 pm

mlev76 wrote:On the whole, I actual think the answer to Bix's question is less about actual in ring work or booking, but one's attitude to the current day product.

Today, we have ready access to wrestling from every corner of the world, much of it available live or shortly thereafter. This includes vastly different styles all being employed currently. In addition, between the streaming services and Youtube, there is ready access to four+ decades of footage, again from many corners of the world. So, a new up and coming wrestler could easily pattern their style after an older style.

Th anti-modern attitude of "this guy doesn't know how to work" or "that's not wrestling" or "they're exposing the business (but I once wrestled a ninja turtle" is really where I think the modern reality of wrestling comes up. When WWE is becoming more open minded but many still cling to their own limited definition of what wrestling is, then you really are out of touch with both modern wrestling and modern fandom.

Agree with you esp. on the last paragraph. Every Saturday I watch AJW Classics thanks to brother morten and that is sooo different from today's wrestling that I watch.It is more fast paced and the crowd heat is incredible but that doesn't mean that AJW style is the best and strong style can f-off,infact, as Ricochet was telling Allan on twitter today, there are sooo many different ways and styles of wrestling. There are so many ways of working a tag match it's incredible.
Shachihoko BOY/Yoshino x Jimmy Susumu/Jimmy Kagetora is an incredible match. They had me hooked for every nearfall. That is a very different match from say, Owen Hart and British Bulldog x Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin. But, the latter was an amazing match as well. So, it's all about (IMO) having an open mind and giving every type of wrestling a fair chance.
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rovert
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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by rovert » Sun May 29, 2016 9:07 pm


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BoxingRobes
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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by BoxingRobes » Sun May 29, 2016 9:32 pm

I find this question rather ridiculous. Its kind of like asking why the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole.

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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by Shining Wiz » Sun May 29, 2016 11:37 pm

Back in the 50's, 60's and the early 70's, getting your music recorded was very difficult and very expensive. Therefore, those who owned record labels/studios really controlled who got to record and, generally, the limited styles that were recorded and released. In the rare event that someone who had a REALLY different sound was able to get recording time, they almost never had the distribution ability to be heard by more than just a few locals.

Then, in the late 70's, a lot of people who were fans of the music in the 50's and 60's wanted to play some music and put it out for people to hear. Some other fans figured they could make a few bucks if they came up with cheaper distribution deals, and we started to hear a few newer styles become more popular, even if just as a niche. Occasionally, something in a particular niche would be so good, or cross genres, and people all over the place would take notice.

Now, in modern times, it doesn't cost anything to record and even less to distribute. That means there is some real shit out there - people who know how to play chords on a guitar, but no idea how to structure a song, let alone a whole album. But god bless them for trying. But, again, there are some people out there making music that's based off of everything that came before, but doing it so differently. Some people love it, but some people - especially those whose ears were conditioned to the sounds back in the 60's and 70's - just don't get it. It just sounds like noise, compared to the top quality tunes from their youth.

But, lovers of modern tunes and 50's do wop are all still music lovers. Maybe they don't listen to the same things, but spending all their time arguing over why their music is better/more complex/evolved just takes away time from actually listening to the stuff they enjoy.

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Re: Modern wrestling, and what makes wrestling modern

Post by mlev76 » Mon May 30, 2016 12:13 am

rovert wrote:
And consider who he is, whose ear he has and the level of respect he's earned.

Doesn't mean that everyone has to like certain matches-including THE MOST DIVISIVE MATCH IN WRESTLING HISTORY-but when important people recognize their value, it should give some people pause before trashing its place in wrestling.

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