The Lucha Underground Thread

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
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dancecab
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by dancecab » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:14 pm

The Fray Movement wrote:
dancecab wrote: Atleast they gave a spoiler warning as to just blurting things out and ruining the show. This is one of those reasons I unsubscribed to the Observer because I felt it ruined the fun of Lucha Underground. Especially the whole Pentagon swerve at Ultima Lucha last year.
Oh, man. When Dave blurted out who the Master was with no warning, I was infuriated.
It was the worst man. I'm fine with Smackdown spoilers cause storyline things don't matter but something like Lucha Underground where storylines are SOOO important is frustrating. It's weird though he almost seems annoyed when he has to give spoiler warnings. IT's like dude, some of us actually want to watch the shows as they are intended not always be in the know of what is coming next like an insider.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:33 pm

Some people view LU as a television show, and some just as another wrestling promotion. I don't think either side is wrong. Reporting, discussing, and "spoiling" wrestling tapings has been part of insider wrestling culture since insider wrestling culture has existed. dave very likely doesn't see LU tapings/"spoilers" as being any different than TNA tapings or Smackdown or 1991 WCW when guys were cutting promos with titles around their waists that they hadn't won yet, or when the Freebirds were losing tag titles that they hadn't won yet.

I get that LU is a little different, but with that said what makes a major LU storyline any different than a major TNA storyline other than fancier production and the fact that one promotion is good and the other sucks? dave is just doing his job the way that he's done it forever. He falls into the camp that sees LU as just another wrestling promotion. I get why it annoys people, but I don't think he has an obligation to hide spoilers. He could relegate that stuff to certain segments I suppose, but he has never had to operate under those constraints for other promotions, and is probably confused as to why he has to do it now.

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mlev76
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by mlev76 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:07 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:Some people view LU as a television show, and some just as another wrestling promotion. I don't think either side is wrong. Reporting, discussing, and "spoiling" wrestling tapings has been part of insider wrestling culture since insider wrestling culture has existed. dave very likely doesn't see LU tapings/"spoilers" as being any different than TNA tapings or Smackdown or 1991 WCW when guys were cutting promos with titles around their waists that they hadn't won yet, or when the Freebirds were losing tag titles that they hadn't won yet.

I get that LU is a little different, but with that said what makes a major LU storyline any different than a major TNA storyline other than fancier production and the fact that one promotion is good and the other sucks? dave is just doing his job the way that he's done it forever. He falls into the camp that sees LU as just another wrestling promotion. I get why it annoys people, but I don't think he has an obligation to hide spoilers. He could relegate that stuff to certain segments I suppose, but he has never had to operate under those constraints for other promotions, and is probably confused as to why he has to do it now.
Common courtesy for his paying audience would seem to dictate at least saying "we're gonna discuss LU/TNA/Smackdown now. If you don't want spoilers, turn this off or skip ahead about 20 minutes."

It is easy enough to just turn off the show when he starts talking about any of this, but it's also a nice thing to be considerate of your audience.

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cbacon87
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by cbacon87 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:36 am

If you're subscribed to The Wrestling Observer Newsletter, I don't think it's a stretch for it's proprietor to automatically assume people are there expecting to hear about stuff that hasn't happened/aired yet.

And I'm with Joe (and presumably Dave) on the "what's the difference really?" point. Wrestlemania's the biggest show of the year, but if we don't hear about the lineup months in advance, Dave's not doing his job right. Lucha Underground being held to a different standard because "it's like a real TV show!" doesn't really fly with me and presumably doesn't with Dave either.

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thecubsfan
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by thecubsfan » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:00 am

I think people would've threatened to burn down Dave or Bryan's house had they revealed the plot points from the Bayley/Sasha Takeovers for the four weeks leading up to it. Like, far more anger than they have about the LU stuff.

I think that's the difference - you can spoil the NXT TV all you want because the Takeovers are the draw, the information people really want are those Takeover lineups, and the TV just exists to tell you those things. You can spoil SmackDown (or TNA - or many Japan groups) all you want because they're not shows the fanbase is totally interested in, nothing big happens, and people actually appreciate the spoilers if it lets them know there's something to watch out for if they wouldn't otherwise.

LU is different because it's the only one where the payoffs can be spoiled. They've been smart enough to have a few of those payoffs happen in skits and not in front of the fans, but it's the only show where someone can read to the end of the book and tell you who the killer was. Or at least the one where it's clearly down on paper so there's no arguing it.

(Though, at the same time, there seems to be plenty of times when Dave appears to have been told who's going to be winning a match at a PPV, and he'll not come out to say it - because it still be changed, or because of courtesy, I'm not sure. He clearly had been told Roman was winning at WM last year - otherwise he wouldn't have known it changed - and didn't report it, and was better of for it.)

The real problem here is - which is no different than the unending "MMA is wrestling too!" bit - is Dave is writing and speaking as if he's doing an industry journalist publication, sold and read mostly by insiders in that field who want to apply this knowledge to their own actions in this field. Of course you'd write and discuss every single detail from the show as a business insider, so you can find out what everyone else in your business is doing and trying, and why would you ever need a warning from the information you're specifically paying to find out? (Similarly, why wouldn't you want to know about MMA when it has possibly has great affect on your wrestling business?)

The reality is that's not the WON subscriber base at all - it was at one point, and there's a portion (10%? 5%? 1%?) who still air, but that's not who the content is marketed to in the least. The vast majority of the people who are paying for the WON are (to use an unfair pejorative) fanboys and enthusiasts who are looking to the content to enhance their experience. They want to know things, but they want to knows that will allow them to enjoy they they already like more, not info which only takes away from it.

Dave, for whatever his thought process, continues to the write the Newsletter and related content for that tiny percentage of people actually in business. Maybe it's better to ignore the masses and do the things the way you think they should be done, but these sort of arguments are going to keep happening in different forms unless he adjusts or there's more options which fits those readers better. Until then, there's going to continue to be people unhappy with him for doing things like this, because his approach is designed not to be for everyone.

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mlev76
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by mlev76 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:13 am

If it was cumbersome, i would understand the desire to not cater to some people. But, really, it takes five extra seconds to alert people of spoilers.

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Chismo
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by Chismo » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:36 am

I didn't listen when Dave spoiled shit last year, but it was a dick and unprofessional move towards his customers, like totally. Some people even call him salty due to not having the best record with LU coverage and scoops. May or may not be true, idk.

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DXvsNWO
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by DXvsNWO » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:48 pm

Per MLW, production of Season 3 has been moved up to March, and it could start airing on El Rey as early as September:

Image

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RobViper13
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by RobViper13 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:31 pm

Probably just vignettes in March & actual matches start mid April. They could be done filming season 3 before Ultima Lucha 2 airs. I would think it's a building issue.
"Whoa is me" - BuzzSawyer

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wac
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by wac » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:47 pm

Hoping we get Fenix vs. Angelico in a Battle of Names Inexplicably Mispronounced By VOW Podcasters Despite Always Being Correctly Pronounced On Commentary

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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by DETROIT_KEJB » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:54 am

wac wrote:Hoping we get Fenix vs. Angelico in a Battle of Names Inexplicably Mispronounced By VOW Podcasters Despite Always Being Correctly Pronounced On Commentary
Haha.

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wac
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by wac » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:58 am

It's pathetic that people are giving Jim Cornette attention for this Lucha Underground rant thing.

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Garuda
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by Garuda » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:00 am

wac wrote:It's pathetic that people are giving Jim Cornette attention for this Lucha Underground rant thing.
Right? I just wish he could shout and that there would be no echo...

And I know that this post is me talking about it more, but w/e.

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Chismo
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by Chismo » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:29 am

Good episode this week, but if I never see an introduction video about a wrestler beating up a bunch of street fighter troublemakers again, I won't complain and sure as hell won't miss it. And we got TWO of those in E2.

I really liked the opener and it was well on the road of being a great match until the ref bump. Killshot's best effort since the career-making Swann series from CZW. Mundo is such a wonderful shitcunt heel. Loved the post-match with Cage. Mack/Black was mediocre, main event was a good, storyline-heavy match. Can't wait for an eventual mano-a-mano between Pentagon and Puma.

Loved Mil looming over The Temple once again, his triumphant arch looks awesomely eerie, reminds me more of the Chele Skull Tower than anything from ancient Americas, tbf.

P.S. Why is Catrina not after Vampiro?

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brandonbitw
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Re: The Lucha Underground Thread

Post by brandonbitw » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:59 pm

Another awesome episode this week. I LOVED the opening match and even in its brief duration I had it at a ***1/2. Everything else was interesting segments and debuts and storyline progression done right.

Pentagon is such a bad dude.

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