Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

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King Of Indy Style
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Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by King Of Indy Style » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:02 pm

I mentioned this in the most recent PWG Thread post but I've been starting to become less enamored with Zack Sabre, Jr. I thought it was just me until Themib mentioned in the RevPro thread that people at the show were getting sick of Zack's style too. I'm starting to get to that "if you see one Zack match you've seen them all territory", and like I also mentioned, there are other people that PWG brings in that I find myself thinking would be more fun as champion. So this led me to wonder about what other people were thinking about Zack.
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Chismo
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by Chismo » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:11 pm

He's literally a "fan service: the wrestler" wrestler.

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John The Drummer
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by John The Drummer » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:22 pm

I love ZSJ, he's a wizard in the ring and makes what I used to think was an insanely boring style of wrestling super fun to watch.

That being said... I can definitely see the "If you've seen one ZSJ match, you've seen them all". There are some guys that he can put on absolute clinics with (Pentagon Jr), but then you pair him with guys who don't necessarily wrestle his style and it just feels like "Oh, ZSJ only wrestles this certain style, I guess I have to do that too..."

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Empiresk
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by Empiresk » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:03 pm

Just got home from watching ZSJ face Ospreay for PROGRESS in Manchester. It can confirm that the 700 people there did not think he has gotten old.

I can understand people feeling this though. It reminds me of when people really turned on Timothy Thatcher about 6 months ago. He isn't working NOAH so he appears alot more than he used to so he loses some of that mystique and the faux-hardcores of Wreddit who have only seen his name in passing have already turned on him as they didn't like a 6 minute squash match and have already declared Jack Gallagher the best technical wrestler on the planet.

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themib
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by themib » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:26 pm

There are times where Zack can deviate, and do it well, such as with Big Daddy Walter at 16 Carat, and the match I saw him have with Trent Seven last week for Rev Pro, where brawling comes more into the match. Zack's probably the best when his opponent can assert more of his style into the match, rather than letting him guide it to "his match". Roddy Strong is very good at that.

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pol
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by pol » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:44 pm

Kind of off topic, but I never thought he was a good technical wrestler. He's a modern indie style wrestler that does 'technical wrestling' spots. That doesn't mean he's bad, mind.

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ScorpioCorp
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by ScorpioCorp » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:47 pm

ZSJ is still one of my favourite wrestlers, because there is no one quite like him. There are plenty of technical wrestlers but there are few who make that style exciting like he does. He has the 'IT' factor when it comes to engaging a crowd.

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AssDan316
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by AssDan316 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:30 am

Didn't this phenomenon of the yout suddenly saying someone is getting old already happen to Ricochet last year? It definitely seems like people are already getting ready to do the same with Ospreay.

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Garuda
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by Garuda » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:28 am

I can understand people feeling that a little bit of ZSJ goes a long way, and that maybe they've seen enough after 10 matches, but no I don't think he's getting old in general. I bet he gets old for some and that's fine. I don't think it speaks to a general reality of his act getting old.

But age? We all gettin' old, baby.

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cbacon87
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by cbacon87 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:11 am

AssDan316 wrote:Didn't this phenomenon of the yout suddenly saying someone is getting old already happen to Ricochet last year? It definitely seems like people are already getting ready to do the same with Ospreay.
I'd argue it's happened with every legitimately pushed/hyped wrestler you can think of besides maybe Daniel Bryan in WWE, although that might be because people never bought that he was really being pushed. And I'm pretty sure it did happen to him in ROH at one point.

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NutCrack
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by NutCrack » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:09 am

If I were a wrestler, I wouldn't compare my wizardry to that of Harry Potter. It makes him seem like such a dork.

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AssDan316
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by AssDan316 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:51 pm

A wrestling fan calling someone else a dork.

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kcstlchi
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by kcstlchi » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:37 pm

So if a guy grows stale, is it ever his fault or is it always hive minded people unfairly turning against someone?

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H.U.S.T.L.E.
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by H.U.S.T.L.E. » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:07 pm

kcstlchi wrote:So if a guy grows stale, is it ever his fault or is it always hive minded people unfairly turning against someone?
I'd say it depends. A lot of times, I think it's more an unwarranted reaction from fans.

You've also got to look at it from this perspective - for guys who finally catch their big break on the indies, it's because fans respond well to that performer. Whether it's because they're doing moves no one else can do, have a completely different style, whatever the case may be... a performer is going to keep doing what got them to the dance. I can't fault them for that either.

The smart guys adapt juuuust enough to keep getting bookings. Guys like Hero & Roddy have been around forever, but they've yo-yo'ed between heel & face a bunch so they tend to feel relatively fresh. Then you've got guys like AR Fox who more or less did the same things every time out, and he's kinda fallen off the radar. That's just one example of a guy who's already a polarizing figure, but he's the first who comes to mind who has disappeared from the major indies.

Honestly, I think some of the burnout on certain performers can be attributed to promoters running the same matchup across various promotions. I get the mentality though - it's a safe bet that guys with chemistry will put on a good show for your local crowd. Hell, it's what got a lot of guys noticed in the early 2000s. Punk talks on his WWE doc how everyone wanted the Punk/Cabana match that was getting rave reviews. In the early independent days when distribution was more sporadic/harder to get, that buzz got people booked. But when we've seen Sabre/Hero in PWG, EVOLVE & PROGRESS multiple times in the same calendar year, the matchup kinda loses its uniqueness. This is a relatively new phenomenon in independent wrestling though due to the unprecedented number of options, so I imagine promoters will wise up and start trying to provide more unique matches.

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ManuRomero90
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Re: Is Zack Sabre, Jr. getting old?

Post by ManuRomero90 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:00 pm

He is still good in his style, if you expect him to do something different than that maybe you will get boring.

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