F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

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mlev76
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by mlev76 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:47 am

People who claim VOW are New Japan apologists should check out the glorious comments from dave here and never question Joe and Rich's objectivity again:

http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic ... 1&start=50

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Joe Lanza
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Joe Lanza » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:29 am

The NJPW dojo unquestionably does a better job producing pure pro wrestlers. It's not even close, actually. Guys like Henare & Oka are already better than people like Corbin or Mojo. To be fair Henare has probably been wrestling just as long as those guys, so like Jay White he's a bit of a ringer, but Oka is seven matches in and shows more fire, sells better, works more believably, and has a better grasp of the basics than a lot of the PC homegrowns, some of which are on the main roster.

It's like Jeff Hawkins says, WWE is trying to find stars and then teaching them how to wrestle at a passable level. NJPW is teaching people how to wrestle, and figuring out how to make them stars later. They are really playing two different games.

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mlev76
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by mlev76 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:40 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:The NJPW dojo unquestionably does a better job producing pure pro wrestlers. It's not even close, actually. Guys like Henare & Oka are already better than people like Corbin or Mojo. To be fair Henare has probably been wrestling just as long as those guys, so like Jay White he's a bit of a ringer, but Oka is seven matches in and shows more fire, sells better, works more believably, and has a better grasp of the basics than a lot of the PC homegrowns, some of which are on the main roster.

It's like Jeff Hawkins says, WWE is trying to find stars and then teaching them how to wrestle at a passable level. NJPW is teaching people how to wrestle, and figuring out how to make them stars later. They are really playing two different games.
Maybe watching more NJPW would change my opinion on this, but I find it a reach to say either Henare or Oka can be judged compared to main roster WWE guys right now. Being a better "pure wrestler" is pretty irrelevant in both promotions although it obviously lays the foundation to be a better wrestler overall. Making that comparison comes across as purposefully praising New Japan and denigrating WWE.

I also don't get excluding all but the 'trained from the start' talent that passes through the PC in the discussion. It seems like large quantities of the PC trainees have had some training coming in and by removing them or excluding them, you're putting your thumb on the scale to make your point.
Last edited by mlev76 on Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by ODonnell » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:46 pm

mlev76 wrote: Prichard's show (which is phenomenal and now a must listen every week) has been illuminating in terms of making the desire to take Meltzer's word as gospel a cautionary approach. Not that Bruce couldn't be possibly bullshitting, but he's called out Dave numerous times on inaccurate reporting.
I love Bruce's show, but he's a wwe apologist at heart. Conrad killing him for his shitty defense of the radicalz losing all of their matches and mysterio losing to Angle is what makes the show great. If anything, Bruce spends 90% of the show confirming what Dave had reported, plus he's been outed on the Observer board as being in character on this show since he was a source for Dave

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by mlev76 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:22 pm

ODonnell wrote:
mlev76 wrote: Prichard's show (which is phenomenal and now a must listen every week) has been illuminating in terms of making the desire to take Meltzer's word as gospel a cautionary approach. Not that Bruce couldn't be possibly bullshitting, but he's called out Dave numerous times on inaccurate reporting.
I love Bruce's show, but he's a wwe apologist at heart. Conrad killing him for his shitty defense of the radicalz losing all of their matches and mysterio losing to Angle is what makes the show great. If anything, Bruce spends 90% of the show confirming what Dave had reported, plus he's been outed on the Observer board as being in character on this show since he was a source for Dave
I have no doubt that Bruce has biases towards WWE, especially during his time there. With that said, my point is that Dave's word isn't necessarily 100% verifiably true.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by JML » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:18 pm

Talking Sheet's interview with Mike Sempervive was awesome and everybody should check it out.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by thecubsfan » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:29 am

dumb take but I'm going to say it anyway: I hope Dave never gets around to publishing the year end awards.

I was reading the classic WON from a couple weeks ago, which was an award issue, and I would've so much preferred to get more about that week in wrestling than pages and pages of award tables without the slightest bit of context. They're generally better now - Dave's writes more about them and him being annoyed when the votes "have it wrong" is always fun. Just in general, Dave's thoughts on the awards are more interesting than the awards itself. Even bad Dave takes are good times. (The post-awards podcast is good for these same reasons.) But, I'd trade that most times for a history piece or detailed thoughts on a show that would've been bumped or anything that's not just a list of names and numbers.

This is mostly only an issue because of the antiquated format (Dave spending his time tabulating votes by hand in 2017 is just strange, Dave limiting content to what he can fit in a print publication in 2017 is backwards) but as long as that's not going to change, it's fine with me to push those number tables off forever.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Goat » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:10 am

Really off the top of my head the only write up of Dave's that I really remember from recent awards issues is his super passive aggressive response to Randy Orton winning most overrated a couple years ago.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Bix » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:05 pm

RobViper13 wrote:Would be interested to hear from the Bryan is a good host contingent if they listened to WOL the other day with Semp hosting. He hit the breaks perfectly without rushing a caller or guest or having to cut them off mid-sentence. He knew the names of the callers before he picked up & refered to them by name instead of "caller". Both these things are very simple and standard for anyone who hosts a radio show. Show also featured much more discussion rather than yelling & the host inventing scenarios so he can then bash WWE when they don't follow his fantasy booking.

I asked the question on twitter but am led to believe Semp cannot RT it or reply because the boss will get angry.
My understanding is it's something like this:

When Bryan hosts, he prefers to use his phone number for the call-ins. Since he doesn't have a call screener, the show comes out the way it usually does. When Semp or someone else hosts, they're using the Sports Byline call-in number, with SBL's engineer doing call screening.

Why they don't do that when Bryan is hosting (and why Bryan on WOR never says the name of mailbag letter writers), I have no idea.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by ODonnell » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:39 pm

With Chavo Sr, Nicole Bass, and George Steele Obits to be written now, we're never going to get the awards issue.

It was disheartening last week when Dave said he has to visit his mother and take care of her in his spare time so that has delayed the awards issue as well. While he has not given an update on her directly, that can't be good.

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by rovert » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:58 pm

Someone on the DVDR board raised the point that Scott Williams death may have increased Dave's workload quite a bit.

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kcstlchi
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by kcstlchi » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:00 am

If only he had a partner

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Bix
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Bix » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:36 am

rovert wrote:Someone on the DVDR board raised the point that Scott Williams death may have increased Dave's workload quite a bit.
I'm sure it has. Scott happened to be a good fit because he was a journalist who regularly worked a night shift. And now, the Observer is being proofed by...Derek Sabato for some reason?

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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by TGD287 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:20 am

Back for the month. Any specific episode recommendations from the last few months outside of the best ofs and the XFL?

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mlev76
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Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by mlev76 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:39 am

So, am I overreacting or is Dave blaming Mauro's depression on JBL? Seems like it...which is pretty fucked up imho.

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