F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

WWE, TNA, and all U.S./Canada based graps talk
User avatar
Garuda
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:15 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Garuda » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:12 pm

ErinQuinn wrote:also...holy fuck the shirt storm this night as been; canceled my sub finally, can't take it any more after the Dave's reply to the Elgin stuff.
You don't have to, but would you paraphrase what he said? I've been clean of that product for a while now.

I remember Alvarez saying backwards cringe-worthy stuff with regularity, and Dave occasionally coming in with his own just when I was hoping he'd have better takes on gender politics.

That place is unfortunately grandfathered in to some real nonsense on that front. Without any signs of improvement.

User avatar
Joe Lanza
Site Admin
Posts: 2732
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:00 pm

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Joe Lanza » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:55 pm

He posted a tumblr link (with no additional comment) in response to subscribers asking him to answer Mo's allegations that he lied about her editing down texts/DMs. That was the context of him posting the link, which tbf, a lot of the Twitter mob missed.

The tumblr showed he wasn't lying as it had much more extensive texts/DMs than what Mo has exposed, but dave never explained why he was posting it, so many people took it as shoddy as fuck evidence that dave thinks Mo is a liar.

dave has a right to defend himself against Mo calling him a liar, but this was a piss poor way to do it. All he had to say was "This is a shady link, I don't agree with the editorializing here, but it does show that I am not lying about having seen unedited conversations". He still would have been banged on in some circles for posting it, but it wouldn't have been a fraction as bad as what he did, which was simply slapping the conspiracy link on the forum, which looks like he is endorsing it. And since he hasn't said otherwise, I can see why people who checked out the link would think that, and it appears he is losing subscribers over it, but keep in mind that in some cases it's just the same people who don't like dave doing the dragging.

I didn't take it as dave calling her a liar, but who knows, because he hasn't said so either way. dave being extremely inarticulate and behaving like a blunt instrument consistently gets him into these messes.

User avatar
Joe Lanza
Site Admin
Posts: 2732
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:00 pm

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:24 am

Someone just posted an email where dave said he doesn't know which side to believe


User avatar
ODonnell
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:48 am

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by ODonnell » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:25 am

Joe Lanza wrote:He posted a tumblr link (with no additional comment) in response to subscribers asking him to answer Mo's allegations that he lied about her editing down texts/DMs. That was the context of him posting the link, which tbf, a lot of the Twitter mob missed.

The tumblr showed he wasn't lying as it had much more extensive texts/DMs than what Mo has exposed, but dave never explained why he was posting it, so many people took it as shoddy as fuck evidence that dave thinks Mo is a liar.

dave has a right to defend himself against Mo calling him a liar, but this was a piss poor way to do it. All he had to say was "This is a shady link, I don't agree with the editorializing here, but it does show that I am not lying about having seen unedited conversations". He still would have been banged on in some circles for posting it, but it wouldn't have been a fraction as bad as what he did, which was simply slapping the conspiracy link on the forum, which looks like he is endorsing it. And since he hasn't said otherwise, I can see why people who checked out the link would think that, and it appears he is losing subscribers over it, but keep in mind that in some cases it's just the same people who don't like dave doing the dragging.

I didn't take it as dave calling her a liar, but who knows, because he hasn't said so either way. dave being extremely inarticulate and behaving like a blunt instrument consistently gets him into these messes.
Especially since link also shows that Elgin is liar, based on when he said they first met and then admitting he was in a relationship with her. But very few people actually clicked the link, just saw was Les Moore stirred up and went on there way to the mob.

Sean Orleans has to think he's the luckiest guy in the world, considering he alledgedly committed a serious crime and 99% of the twitter outrage is about Elgin, dave, etc. aka not the guy who actually did the awful thing.

User avatar
ErinQuinn
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:41 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by ErinQuinn » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:27 am

Garuda wrote:
ErinQuinn wrote:also...holy fuck the shirt storm this night as been; canceled my sub finally, can't take it any more after the Dave's reply to the Elgin stuff.
You don't have to, but would you paraphrase what he said? I've been clean of that product for a while now.

I remember Alvarez saying backwards cringe-worthy stuff with regularity, and Dave occasionally coming in with his own just when I was hoping he'd have better takes on gender politics.

That place is unfortunately grandfathered in to some real nonsense on that front. Without any signs of improvement.
Alvarez’s comments have been grating on me for a while and the quality of his reviews is either gone down or I’ve moved passed being entertained by B&V. Theres no passion there any more imo

Joe did a good job recapping the Dave portion of this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Garuda
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:15 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Garuda » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:34 am

Appreciated!

User avatar
suplexberry
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:34 pm

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by suplexberry » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:13 am

At a time when journalists all over are doing supremely impressive and brave investigations into hushed up/gag-ordered allegations going back years on powerful entertainment people like Bryan Singer and Weinstein (as well as politicians etc), and the wrestling world is also faced with at least a partial reckoning & BritWres is imploding on itself with some rotten stuff, I would hope that there'd be a guy who gets paid to do journalism out there to do the legwork on all this stuff, even if it means losing a source or two. Until we do, I'm afraid the options are going to remain "trial by twitter" or "everybody keeps quiet/only discusses stuff in private, so everything stays the same".

User avatar
Ferrante207
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:39 am
Location: MAINE

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Ferrante207 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Dave appears to just be a hardcore wrestling nerd who via his obsession for wrestling info is been thrust into the role of "arbiter of the entire wrestling community". His slightly on the spectrum hardcore wrestling fan brain is not equipped to do this high level nuanced journalism and rhetoric. Lanza is correct, he doesn't have the language tools (or mental models for that matter) to handle this. TMZ man could really make a name for himself if he did a Spotlight style investigation into this whole issue, but I also believe he doesn't have the chops. This story could make or break the next (only?) great wrestling journalist if handled with detail and care.

User avatar
supersonic
Posts: 3332
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:12 am
Location: Edgar Martinez Dr S
Contact:

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by supersonic » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:57 am


User avatar
supersonic
Posts: 3332
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:12 am
Location: Edgar Martinez Dr S
Contact:

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by supersonic » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:01 am


User avatar
thecubsfan
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:29 pm

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by thecubsfan » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:03 pm







I totally missed this if he mentioned it on the last podcast. I assume he's got to a nice deal to go elsewhere and I'm happy for Alan for getting it.

I had three things that made my WON subscription worthwhile. Now I have two. As a subscriber, I hope they bring in someone to the spot so the subscription doesn't lose value. As a person rooting for people to get paid for wrestling content, I hope that indie/Japan/whatever audio gig doesn't go away.

User avatar
Alan4L
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Alan4L » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:21 am

Things weren't locked in when I recorded that show cubs so I didn't mention anything on air but I knew there was a strong possibility it was the last one. Happy to have done it with Matt & Joey who are both awesome!!!

User avatar
supersonic
Posts: 3332
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:12 am
Location: Edgar Martinez Dr S
Contact:

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by supersonic » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:46 am

Where will the DKP archive be going forward?

User avatar
Alan4L
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by Alan4L » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:08 am

supersonic wrote:Where will the DKP archive be going forward?
F4W as long as they want to keep it there. I did it for them so it's theirs to use in my opinion!

User avatar
mlev76
Posts: 2576
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:32 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: F4W/Observer-Is it still worth paying for?

Post by mlev76 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:23 am

Alan4L wrote:
supersonic wrote:Where will the DKP archive be going forward?
F4W as long as they want to keep it there. I did it for them so it's theirs to use in my opinion!
Well, the title of this thread may again become relevant.

Best of luck at the new site, Alan!

Post Reply