"Why NXT May Be a Long-Term Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

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Joe Lanza
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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term] Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:20 pm

What changes now is that we won't see the abundance of long time indie talent like the era that is about to come to an end shortly as rovert alludes to. WWE went so long not farming the indies that the talent simply piled up. What needs to happen now, is promoters need to be more aggressive about working to get new talent over, and making sure they repeat that process as anyone they do get over will be on the WWE radar. I recently saw the AIW guys complaining that the indies are "empty". I think they are wrong, but I don't blame them. They are used to having plenty of over names to choose from, they aren't used to getting their own people over. They aren't the only ones who need to change their mindset. Stop waiting for guys to get made and make them yourself. Your show posters won't look as impressive for a bit but don't wait around for someone else to do it for you.

Anecdotally using one of my local groups, Inspire went all in on relative unknowns like Ricky Starks, Andy Dalton, Keith Lee, Delilah Doom, Ray Rowe etc when they started up, and used the established names (Chuck Taylor, ACH, Angelus Layne, Robert Evans, Chris Hero, etc) to help get them over. Dalton is now with NOAH, Lee & Rowe ROH, Starks does frequent WWE enhancement work and is working everywhere, you just saw Doom on RAW. They made their own stars, it took some time, but now those are all viable "names" to one extent or another.

The talent is out there. This is a shake up and I'm not sure many were ready, but 2017 will be a key year in changing the mindset of how you approach your booking.

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Uhaacrewz
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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term] Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by Uhaacrewz » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:03 pm

Looking at who's coming in for the cruiser division or NXT work soon and where they've been working regularly makes me think it's not all that bad. Only 2-3 people were all over the U.S. scene with Gargano and Ciampa. There's also Cedric, but I feel he didn't really get hot until after he left ROH so it's not like indies are not use to not having him around. As for others, does TJP even work anywhere of note besides Evolve? With Roderick Strong it's not like he was active once he signed an exclusive with ROH. There's PWG, but they lose somebody and then bring in others from all over the place. There's things I know and don't know about the Euro scene, but I think even with the names they are losing they're still loaded with talent.

I think WWE talent scouting would have more of an effect in TNA, ROH or Lucha Underground, but this is the common WWE strategy against any groups that resemble competition in any way. You also have to remember that the indy scene is competing against WWE as much as WWE is making moves themselves. The indies operate in ways that leads to WWE losing talent due to people leaving on their own.

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rovert
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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term] Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by rovert » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:34 am

This article kinda fits here:


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Brandon Howard
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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term] Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by Brandon Howard » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:29 pm

Joe Lanza wrote:What changes now is that we won't see the abundance of long time indie talent like the era that is about to come to an end shortly as rovert alludes to. WWE went so long not farming the indies that the talent simply piled up. What needs to happen now, is promoters need to be more aggressive about working to get new talent over, and making sure they repeat that process as anyone they do get over will be on the WWE radar. I recently saw the AIW guys complaining that the indies are "empty". I think they are wrong, but I don't blame them. They are used to having plenty of over names to choose from, they aren't used to getting their own people over. They aren't the only ones who need to change their mindset. Stop waiting for guys to get made and make them yourself. Your show posters won't look as impressive for a bit but don't wait around for someone else to do it for you.
Thing with this is getting over nationwide on the indies is much more a democracy and less a dictatorship. A single booker/promoter can do everything in the world to get a wrestler over, and even succeed at getting that wrestler hugely over in their one promotion, but that wrestler doesn't become an indie name unless they catch on and get booked in lots of other places. The assent of indie stars is fairly organic (with a side of nepotism), unless you can orchestrate some kind of grand symbiotic cooperation and unified creative vision among indie promoters nationwide, which sounds impossible.

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term] Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by monster mafia » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:56 pm

nxt is overrated.

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term] Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by TGD287 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:45 pm

Using Ciampa as an example of a star leaving also supports the argument of untapped talent always ready, because he was only in this super indie name role for about 18 months.

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rovert
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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term] Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by rovert » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:23 am

It has been some year:

A flashback to Wrestlemania weekend:



Image

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Rich Kraetsch
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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term] Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by Rich Kraetsch » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:33 pm

Brandon Howard wrote:
Joe Lanza wrote:What changes now is that we won't see the abundance of long time indie talent like the era that is about to come to an end shortly as rovert alludes to. WWE went so long not farming the indies that the talent simply piled up. What needs to happen now, is promoters need to be more aggressive about working to get new talent over, and making sure they repeat that process as anyone they do get over will be on the WWE radar. I recently saw the AIW guys complaining that the indies are "empty". I think they are wrong, but I don't blame them. They are used to having plenty of over names to choose from, they aren't used to getting their own people over. They aren't the only ones who need to change their mindset. Stop waiting for guys to get made and make them yourself. Your show posters won't look as impressive for a bit but don't wait around for someone else to do it for you.
Thing with this is getting over nationwide on the indies is much more a democracy and less a dictatorship. A single booker/promoter can do everything in the world to get a wrestler over, and even succeed at getting that wrestler hugely over in their one promotion, but that wrestler doesn't become an indie name unless they catch on and get booked in lots of other places. The assent of indie stars is fairly organic (with a side of nepotism), unless you can orchestrate some kind of grand symbiotic cooperation and unified creative vision among indie promoters nationwide, which sounds impossible.
Can't speak for promotions across the country or other regions but in my neck of the woods, promoters talk. If someone really goes all-in on a worker and makes him a big deal in that promotion, chances are in one of those discussions his/her name will come up and it can build from there. Your point is absolutely valid though. Promotion X can give Wrestler Y a 100 match winning streak where he kills it each and everytime out but if he never leaves that promotion, what have you really gained? So your overall point is valid but often in these cases if a guy gets built up in a certain promotion in a certain region, he's sure to start getting hot elsewhere too. Will that make him a bonafide, no doubt "indie star", who knows but I think it's a LITTLE easier to create a star, especially in 2016, than you may be giving credit for. Again that's region-specific though, you obviously have a much stronger grasp on the east coast scene.

An underrated talking point for the indies drying up narrative is no longer are you getting the ex-WWE, ex-TNA, ex-major promotion guys coming back into the fold. A Chris Hero falling in the laps of indie companies was an absolute gem and helped re-ignite the last few years. In this past year, you've had, who, Bull James, Cody Rhodes and Ryback? WWE simply isn't giving up on talented wrestlers like they may have done in the past and in turn those ready-made guys that can waltz into any company with name value and still have a great match just aren't there. So, like Joe said a few posts ago, it's going to take a lot of work from promotions to build guys up.

It could take some time but I don't buy into the doom & gloom aspect of it either. Gabe and EVOLVE is already setting the stages for their next few months with the Ethan Page storyline, the inclusion of Dev Corp into their stable, Anthony Henry and a few more. The guys are out there, it'll just take some time before people have the same emotional connection to them as they had with the recent lot of stars. It can be done, it'll just a little more work than what has been required over those last few years.

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by Ferrante207 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:50 pm

Since the labor market for high-end indy names is tightening up, are guys like Hero able to command a higher wage?

The PWG commentators on night 1 BOLA made a joke about PWG eventually just being a ton of mid 2000s ex-wwe guys. I do think some of this fear may be overblown, but if it's coming from legit indy promotions like AIW maybe there is some credence.

I tend to subscribe to Lanza's theory that there will always be great talent on the indies and it will constantly be replenished.

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by RobViper13 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:49 pm

I think the narrative that WWE is killing the indies falls right in line with the 2006-2012 talking point that WWE is going to take over Mexico and kill Lucha Libre. Smart people who I respect said CMLL wouldn't survive & AAA would be bought up by Vince who would open his own territory causing a trickle down effect that would end the need for any indy shows. I just laughed and laughed. Fast forward to 2016, CMLL business is doing surprisingly great, AAA is floundering due to zero to do with WWE & the indy scene has never been stronger.

WWE can hurt the indies temporarily but kill them dead? Never.

The key thing to always remember is how WWE goes hot and cold on things. It's entirely possible in 6 months the mindset will once again be these indy guys are too small & have no charisma so we need to focus on filling up NXT with failed football players.
"Whoa is me" - BuzzSawyer

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by BoxingRobes » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:43 am

I think it was Lanza that said on a podcast...its up to the promoters to make new stars. There will always be plenty of talent but promoters need to get their heads out of their ass and start getting the next man up ready to go. If you're a promotion that relied on Gargano, End, Roddy, etc. without grooming guys underneath you deserve what you get. If you're a promotion right now relying on The Young Bucks, Ricochet, these limey English fucks, these Mexican flippy-dos from LU...you better start grooming guys underneath'em fast. WWE seems to be running on 6mo. cycles where these new classes begin. You've also got plenty of time, as WWE lets them finish out dates.

Start developing new guys. There is enough talent out there.

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by rovert » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:30 pm

*Placeholder post for when the Wrestling business changes forever next week*

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by mprentice84 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:09 pm

rovert wrote:*Placeholder post for when the Wrestling business changes forever next week*
Setting awfully high expectations with this one. You must know something good.

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by Uhaacrewz » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:34 am

mprentice84 wrote:
rovert wrote:*Placeholder post for when the Wrestling business changes forever next week*
Setting awfully high expectations with this one. You must know something good.
Another top indie name signing with WWE? WWE furthering alliances with certain companies? I wonder what's going on.

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Re: "Why NXT May Be a Long-Term Detriment For Pro Wrestling"

Post by Rottenrocker » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:05 am

Return of Tout imminent?

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