Dragon Gate (Discussion)

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Angry216
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Angry216 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:18 am

Re; Rollup's point; that's the one thing about the T-Hawk argument that I think usually have with people. I get the idea that people are just like "why isn't this company taking risk?" "Why wouldn't they just take a risk on T-Hawk?" And my argument is always...well, why should they?

Let's look at the objectives here. He was the lead i the Millenials. The post I made previously on the last page is a list of everything this company has done to try to elevate him ad none of it has worked. All of that is objective. It would be one thing if this was just purely opinion base. But it's a fact that the Millenials weren't over with the crowd. It's a fact that the crowd rejected him when he was going to win the Dream Gate in 2015. It's a fact that people do't react to him now. These are all things we can see and you could go and watch most of those shows on the RealHero Archive or even on Dailymotion. it's there to see. And the thing is I think a lot of people agree with this or acknowledge. But my thing has always been" if we can see the fact that he's failed in a lot of ways, then why do we think he would succeed when put in a even higher position?"

To me, you would ant to take a risk on a guy when you see that they have a recent track record of doing well. Hence the Kzy Dream Gate shot. Makes sense. He's become really good, he's really popular and he has great performances. That's why you take a risk on a guy. Even if you want to use an out of the company example, look at Kenoh in NOAH. He killed it with Ohara, he killed it in his singles performances. Even on a smaller scale in Mich Pro, you could see the productive. So it makes sense why NOAH is going all in on him because he has the track record to prove that it's warranted. T-Hawk does not have that.

But the company is going to keep trying. And ANTIAS is about these three guys; Eita, Linda and T-Hawk. These three are the main players so this is definitely put up or shut up. But yeah, that's just my stance on the T-Hawk thing. Sorry for the long post :P

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rollup
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by rollup » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:00 pm

haha for me its more of "alright i know what you have been trying to do , can you just get it over with" for THawk.

But that said DG seems unable to create any momentum with their young stars

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Foresite
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Foresite » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:28 pm

Eita's leapfrogged T-Hawk skill wise imho, now they're back alongside eachother I can see Eita being elevated to main event status as the comparison will be constant.

Plus I'd pop huge for Eita vs Mochi

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Empiresk
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Empiresk » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:01 pm

I won't be forgetting the CIMA, Gamma and Fuji tag against Maria, Hyo and Saito anytime soon...

What did everyone think about Xavier, Wentz and Bandido on their Korakuen debuts? I though Xavier was great as always but Wentz didn't look as good as I have seen him. Bandido looked quite hesitant all match tbf, but much better than Misterioso.

I think the appeal of Dragon Gate for me at the minute is that with the Dream Gate on Mochi he could lose to anyone or hold the belt for a year and no one would complain. The Dream Gate has been quite predicable, minus Susumu. Kzy is a fresh challenger and Jae mentioned Linda for a shot the other week. Nice to see some fresh faces in the mix.

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BlizzardAcolyte
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by BlizzardAcolyte » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:10 pm

I'm guessing that, with the news surrounding Kotoka, we'll be getting an emergency OVG episode pretty soon...poor Kotoka.

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Empiresk
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Empiresk » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:33 pm

Oh wow. Kotoka retiring is tragic. I started watching DG in 2015 and my first show was the Millennial's disbanding and Kotoka in the coming months proved to be the most interesting guy on the roster considering my ignorance to all the history of the company. His initial VeserK run and Brave Gate title reign was a guilty pleasure.

At least there is some positivity in the fact that his younger brother joining the roster as he is leaving. It could lead to some great motivation and the fans should be able to get behind him.

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rollup
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by rollup » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:57 pm

today's Korakuen was an average show with a very good main event for the dreamgate title. The Finishing stretch was excellent
► Show Spoiler

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monster mafia
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by monster mafia » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:49 pm

guy,s do you have a list with the best matches of dragon gate in 2017?

thanks.

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Starshine
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Starshine » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:06 am

There's been something that has been bugging me about the ANTIAS unit formation. Have we had any explanation why Shingo has become so disposed to not only let T-Hawk take over, but to even sacrifice the unit he formed in his own image in order to highlight the younger guys taking the spotlight?

It just seems really out of character based on how he's acted since the heel turn to just roll over and let the young guys take over. Especially since even as late as Final Gate he was still treating Lindaman like the bottom bitch of the group.
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ScorpioCorp
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by ScorpioCorp » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:49 am

Starshine wrote:There's been something that has been bugging me about the ANTIAS unit formation. Have we had any explanation why Shingo has become so disposed to not only let T-Hawk take over, but to even sacrifice the unit he formed in his own image in order to highlight the younger guys taking the spotlight?

It just seems really out of character based on how he's acted since the heel turn to just roll over and let the young guys take over. Especially since even as late as Final Gate he was still treating Lindaman like the bottom bitch of the group.
I was just thinking about that. I'll admit that I'm behind on Dragon Gate, but this recent turn seems odd for Shingo. Especially considering his 'Mr Selfish' character.

Angry216
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Angry216 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:45 pm

To be fair, if you really think about it, Takagi's influence in Verserk had waned and favored T-Hawk anyways. I remember looking up and I'll have to look this again, but I believe 5 of the last 7 Korakuens T-Hawk got the pin in the matches he was in. Again, I'll have to double check that but it's something like that. Plus, he ended the Jimmyz; scoring three falls while being the last survivor. He won KING of GATE, main evented World, he won that Tag Team Tournament with Eita, won the Twin Gate. So really, T-Hawk had already gradually became Verserk's best wrestler and the amount of main events wins, the main events he's been in, the fact that he's usually involved in the main storylines, do favor that this was the plan for a bit. What I'm saying is that this was already happening, they just made it public.

Although, I don't think he's the outright leader of ANTIAS. They've made it very clear that this is a three man effort between him, Eita and Lindaman. If anything, T-Hawk is 1a, Eita is 1b and Lindaman is 2; similar to OG MAD BLANKEY when Tozawa was 1A(you could argue 1b) and BxB Hulk was 1B (again, you could argue he was 1A)

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Foresite
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Foresite » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:14 pm

I don't think anyone is disputing the booking, just that the angle doesn't fit with how the Shingo character has been presented since leaving ME

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Starshine
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Starshine » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:55 pm

Angry216 wrote:To be fair, if you really think about it, Takagi's influence in Verserk had waned and favored T-Hawk anyways. I remember looking up and I'll have to look this again, but I believe 5 of the last 7 Korakuens T-Hawk got the pin in the matches he was in. Again, I'll have to double check that but it's something like that. Plus, he ended the Jimmyz; scoring three falls while being the last survivor. He won KING of GATE, main evented World, he won that Tag Team Tournament with Eita, won the Twin Gate. So really, T-Hawk had already gradually became Verserk's best wrestler and the amount of main events wins, the main events he's been in, the fact that he's usually involved in the main storylines, do favor that this was the plan for a bit. What I'm saying is that this was already happening, they just made it public.

Although, I don't think he's the outright leader of ANTIAS. They've made it very clear that this is a three man effort between him, Eita and Lindaman. If anything, T-Hawk is 1a, Eita is 1b and Lindaman is 2; similar to OG MAD BLANKEY when Tozawa was 1A(you could argue 1b) and BxB Hulk was 1B (again, you could argue he was 1A)
See I'd imagine Shingo to be the type to lay claim that T-Hawk and Eita's successes were due to his leadership in VerserK. It's hard to imagine the same Takagi who chastised ME stablemate Masato Yoshino, despite the latter being Dream Gate champion at the time, would also be cool with paying second fiddle to the younger guys, especially Lindaman. We've also seen how he was happy enough to eject guys from his unit if they didn't toe the line he set.

It's not about who's being booked the strongest. It's an issue of if it's possible to suspend our disbelief to whether we can believe a strong personality like Takagi would willingly take a subservient role. It's just weird to see it happen that exact way. Even weirder when you consider at the end of its run, VerserK was still a largely successful unit. It wasn't like there was any infighting, or questioning of the direction they were taking. T-Hawk and Eita just one day said, we're taking over, and that was that. Feels like one of the laziest unit shuffles (which it barely is in any case) DG has delivered.
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Angry216
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Angry216 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:22 am

I think the points here are good here. I do want to point out that Takagi's beef with Yoshino was the extreme amount of exhibition matches, matches where people from different units teamed with each other for no reason, in particular Yoshino wanting to team with T-Hawk after beating him at World 2015. Plus he thought Shachi was weak.

Though I see your point. Problem is if you kick out Takagi, where does he go. Especially now. Perhaps they could but Takagi wasn't over as a face. And he never will be. I guess you do a New Hazard reunion if you kill Tribe. Though Hulk has stated in the past that he'll never be in a unit with him again. Interesting point is on his blog before the transition, he said he didn't consider it a step down but more of a way to hone his skills in a support role.

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Starshine
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Re: Dragon Gate

Post by Starshine » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:02 am

Angry216 wrote:I think the points here are good here. I do want to point out that Takagi's beef with Yoshino was the extreme amount of exhibition matches, matches where people from different units teamed with each other for no reason, in particular Yoshino wanting to team with T-Hawk after beating him at World 2015. Plus he thought Shachi was weak.

Though I see your point. Problem is if you kick out Takagi, where does he go. Especially now. Perhaps they could but Takagi wasn't over as a face. And he never will be. I guess you do a New Hazard reunion if you kill Tribe. Though Hulk has stated in the past that he'll never be in a unit with him again. Interesting point is on his blog before the transition, he said he didn't consider it a step down but more of a way to hone his skills in a support role.
I guess it depends on where they go with this Owarai title match with Saito. Takagi being forced into a fish out of water a comedy role could be interesting depending on how they play it. It also gives ANTIAS an out to kick him to the curb if they stop taking him seriously because of it.
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