CMLL, the home of Cavernario

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pol
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by pol » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:23 pm

I thought Park/Ciber was really good except for the finish. Sucks to do that kind of match and not be able to do blood though.

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Chismo
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by Chismo » Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:34 pm

JML wrote:I fell asleep watching the Claro feed and missed Elite last night. However, there's a YT channel that posts the Lucha Azteca 7 shows the morning after. Elite was a damn good show besides the finish of the La Park vs Cibernetico match. OG Parka tried and tried and tried to get a great match out of Cibernetico but it couldn't happen.
The finish to Ciber/Park is bonafide contender for WOAT finish. Just awful all around. And I didn't even find the match that good, tbf. Park was wonderful and worked hard, but Cibernetico was just - bad. He couldn't catch Park on two crucial occasions. Cibernetico did much better job against Ultimo Guerrero few weeks back, but that match was also ruined by the finish(ing run).

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van Fair
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by van Fair » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:30 am

Apparently CMLL is responsible for getting Elite bumped from their Friday 6 PM TV slot to 11 PM. CMLL was blaming the Elite TV show for low attendance for their live show at the same time. Elite is understandably upset over this and that is the reason why all the CMLL logos were blurred out on their last broadcast. On the other hand they can not break off their relationship with CMLL at the moment as they are not only relying heavily on CMLL talent, but also the venue and a lot of the production end is carried by CMLL.
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JML
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by JML » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:47 pm

van Fair wrote:Apparently CMLL is responsible for getting Elite bumped from their Friday 6 PM TV slot to 11 PM. CMLL was blaming the Elite TV show for low attendance for their live show at the same time. Elite is understandably upset over this and that is the reason why all the CMLL logos were blurred out on their last broadcast. On the other hand they can not break off their relationship with CMLL at the moment as they are not only relying heavily on CMLL talent, but also the venue and a lot of the production end is carried by CMLL.
It's such a weird situation. I hope people like Cubsfan and RobViper can chime in on particulars but for me, I find the dynamics very weird because of Elite having a better TV deal, better production and more money to spend on book big names like LA Park, Bobby Lashley, Super Crazy and even Xtreme Tiger (TNA) but the attendances for the Wednesday shows have been dropping and it's noticeable when watching the show that airs on Azteca7. CMLL obviously has to have some stake ownership with Elite cause of the venues and the talent being used but they don't want them to shine too much. Just weird.

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van Fair
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by van Fair » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:14 pm

JML wrote:
van Fair wrote:Apparently CMLL is responsible for getting Elite bumped from their Friday 6 PM TV slot to 11 PM. CMLL was blaming the Elite TV show for low attendance for their live show at the same time. Elite is understandably upset over this and that is the reason why all the CMLL logos were blurred out on their last broadcast. On the other hand they can not break off their relationship with CMLL at the moment as they are not only relying heavily on CMLL talent, but also the venue and a lot of the production end is carried by CMLL.
It's such a weird situation. I hope people like Cubsfan and RobViper can chime in on particulars but for me, I find the dynamics very weird because of Elite having a better TV deal, better production and more money to spend on book big names like LA Park, Bobby Lashley, Super Crazy and even Xtreme Tiger (TNA) but the attendances for the Wednesday shows have been dropping and it's noticeable when watching the show that airs on Azteca7. CMLL obviously has to have some stake ownership with Elite cause of the venues and the talent being used but they don't want them to shine too much. Just weird.
I can imagine that it is jealousy on CMLLs part. I think CMLL did not expect Elite to get the TV slot and just wanted to milk the money marks behind Elite until the well runs dry. Now Elite has better TV than CMLL and that is obviously bothering them a lot.

Edit: The big money contracts Elite offered also allowed CMLL to draw away guys like Caristico and Cibernetico from AAA and there are constant rumours of guys wanting to jump because of those contracts.
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Paisley Park
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by Paisley Park » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:01 pm

van Fair wrote:
I can imagine that it is jealousy on CMLLs part. I think CMLL did not expect Elite to get the TV slot and just wanted to milk the money marks behind Elite until the well runs dry. Now Elite has better TV than CMLL and that is obviously bothering them a lot.

Edit: The big money contracts Elite offered also allowed CMLL to draw away guys like Caristico and Cibernetico from AAA and there are constant rumours of guys wanting to jump because of those contracts.
I dunno, I don't think that CMLL is bothered by the quality of Elite's deal. I think it really is more of a timeslot issue. CMLL not wanting to have TV conflict with the Friday show is something that I can believe.
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JML
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by JML » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:03 pm

Didn't watch last nights CMLL 60th Anniversary show but saw Elite. It was a fun show overall. Dorada vs Volador Jr was what it was and Dorada is insane for that last ramp jumping Rana that he did.

The trios match started as a comedy match and ended up being the most heated match on the show. Might be the heated match in all of the episodes of Lucha Azteca. Rush throwing a little kid or a small man at LA Park was something else. UG vs Lashley was fun. I wouldn't say great but fun.

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Chismo
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by Chismo » Fri May 06, 2016 9:28 am

I predicted last year The Panther could get a 2015 Dragon Lee push in 2016, because A) his father is Blue Panther, B) he won that (shitty) cage match on Christmas, and C) because he's just as good and flashy as DL. But it's not happening, and I'm rather disappointed by that, I'd kill to see him in a 3-fall 17 min match. It doesn't even have to some world class rudo, I'd be fine with Dragon Rojo or even Felino and Ephesto ffs. God, Averno is missed so much in CMLL, he was the best at putting over and working with young tecnicos. Nowadays we have Virus, but for some reason it's not the case this year.

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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by mprentice84 » Sun May 15, 2016 4:58 am

Really digging the Elite shows. For someone like me, they're infinitely more digestible and enjoyable than the regular CMLL show.

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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by ScorpioCorp » Tue May 17, 2016 10:11 am

Been watching the Liga Elite & its been fun. It feels like a lucha version of the G1 Climax. Dorada, Caristico, Tiger, Volador have been highlights so far. The others have been great except for LA Park & Cibernetico who have looked like DUD's in their matches.

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mprentice84
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by mprentice84 » Wed May 25, 2016 2:54 pm

CMLL announced the return of the International Gran Prix yesterday. Cubsfan and Fredo Esparza have a bunch of info up on their pages. Could be a hell of a tournament, especially with NJPW involvement.

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Chismo
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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by Chismo » Wed May 25, 2016 8:20 pm

More lucha tournaments, yaaay.

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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by Danwaka » Fri May 27, 2016 9:45 am

12 active world championships (3 of which have the NWA brand), six secondary championships (only one of which has the CMLL brand), six Guadalajara championships, 12 currently unrecognized championships and 14 tournaments big enough to merit mention on Wikipedia.

Why does CMLL have such a large number of championships? Is it like a mini-NWA or something?

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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by Chismo » Fri May 27, 2016 1:49 pm

Short answer: they're insane.

Long answer: thecubsfan could cover this one.

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Re: CMLL, the home of Cavernario

Post by thecubsfan » Fri May 27, 2016 5:03 pm

The original intention was for CMLL to become the NWA of Mexico, with their own set of titles to replace the NWA ones and promotional agreements in various cities to farm out these title matches. Instead, CMLL couldn't bring itself ever to break with the NWA titles (which date back to the start of it's promotion) and those regional groups faded away as wrestling TV grew.

Mexican wrestling, from an administrative perspective, is still relatively close to Mexican boxing, so the internal justification is boxing has a lots of title belts so why shouldn't lucha libre? There's plenty wrong with having lots of boxing titles, but it's the same thing - the fighters are actually convinced whatever title belt they have is totally meaningful and proof they are fantastic, the bookers play off to keep the fighters happy and the fans generally pay no attention to the belts - it's the big feuds that draw.

Doing title matches also saves cmLL from having to do long (or even medium) term feuds and having any sort of direction. It's a big crutch.

CMLL's built it's biggest tournament around having 16 different belt holders, so it's not likely to change any time soon.

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