NJPW (Discussion)

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Bloodbuzz Bunk
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Bloodbuzz Bunk » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:21 pm

supersonic wrote:NJPW fanboys sounding like irrational WWE fanboys a year ago when Goldberg slaughtered Lesnar. The goal is to grow the brand and expand the audience, except instead of just stacking the company Super Bowl with a major new but familiar name, but also penetrating on WWE’s territory in America.

I get the strategy and can even appreaciate the ambition of the move. However the counter argument is that NJPW has been growing at a fast rate just by building their own stars and booking great singles programs between them. Jericho is a nice get for sure but the interest he draws might not last because the product NJPW excels at differs vastly from the type of product these WWE centric viewers are conditioned to and seek. Also this whole thing wouldn't be so divisive if it wasn't at the Dome.

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saviorofstrongstyle
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by saviorofstrongstyle » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:05 pm

I understand the goal of wanting to expand and get more USA eyes on your product for 2018 and Jericho vs Omega will do that for sure, but going to war with the WWE like this is not really the smartest idea, and having Jericho on board seems to really reek of that.
Also, whose to say Jericho isn't going to be trying to do some courting of names while being around the locker room? Maybe that sounds paranoid of me but I don't know.

Does anyone else think that Ibushi has sort of filled in the slots that Shibata probably would have had post losing to Okada if he had not been injured? I could see them having had Shibata beat Tana in the G1, lose to Tana at Power Struggle, and then fight Cody at WK, since they never got to the Cody / Shibata singles match. Seems about right to me.

With the return of Jay White and this gimmick they have going for him and comparing all the recent returns of young lions post excursion with wacky gimmicks, are we ever going to get a returns from excursion as a normal guy? I guess in general that doesn't happen. I hope Kawato doesn't come back with some corny goofball gimmick, but seems this is the state of things currently.

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:18 pm

well i understand the booking , they are trying to break 30k for WK and also spill over the buzz and interest into their USA show in March

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armsofsleep
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by armsofsleep » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:35 am

When I watch a movie I don't think "well this is good but how much money did it make?" I watch for MY enjoyment. I know what ramifications it has for their business. I don't watch wrestling with the goal of expanding a global brand. I watch to enjoy it. Coming in and saying fans "don't understand" what they should or shouldn't enjoy because of abstract business reasons is fucking stupid, full stop.

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King Of Indy Style
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by King Of Indy Style » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:54 am

There's a difference between understanding why a company does something and enjoying what that company does. I understand why they brought Chris in; it's a HUGE get. People will be talking about this for months. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
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suplexberry
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by suplexberry » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:55 am

Hoo boy. This show right here.

Somewhere along the way this absolutely maniac named Kota Ibushi worked me into the greatest shoot of them all: caring deeply about the outcome of a wrestling match. Maybe it was his comments that if he won, he'd want to face Kenny Omega, even though in other comments he talked about not really being as interested in Kenny as other people may be seeing them wrestle one another. Then he dropped some vague tweets which I found translations of and was confirmed by The Lion Marks' article translations: Ibushi saw the IC title as not only a bridge to overcome Tanahashi, the so called wrestling god, but also a bridge to Nakamura, a rival with deep importance to him. So imagine you're me, and your favorite feuds back in the day were Ibushi vs Nakamura and Nakamura vs Tanahashi - two feuds that symbolically wrapped around this IC title bout. And your favorite feud now? Omega vs Ibushi, which might never happen if Ibushi doesn't stick around.

It's amazing how Nakamura is still a part of NJPW, with his mantle being symbolically carried by Tanahashi with this IC belt. Naito may have abused it with everything he had but now Tanahashi is carrying the legacy again, and Ibushi wanted desperately to be a part of that, to have a third match against Nakamura, and to best Tanahashi.

Of course, outside kayfabe this also meant that Ibushi was given the keys to the castle, and that just maybe he'd signed on the dotted line to become one of the top names in NJPW, a contracted main event talent which we all know he can be. I know his philosophy to wrestling is different from my selfish desires - I want him in the best company in the world with the best talent in the world, telling stories that build for years and squeeze my heart in all their potency - but he wants to goof around and embrace his own way of doing things, fantasy booking himself in 14 matches per year, not signing a single paper. And I admire that, I really do. But I'm selfish.

And I really, really wanted this guy to win.

So the match itself was absolutely brilliant - I'll have to rewatch but it may make it into my Top 10 of the year. Hard-hitting, dramatic, left me gasping for air with the Nakamura callbacks all over the place. And the amazing aftermath. Ibushi was as inconsolable as me afterwards - but of course, his crying only played into kayfabe. In reality, I think he was probably happy he got to have this moment with Tanahashi, and Tanahashi acknowledged it, too. I don't know what the future holds for this guy but god, my heart hurt. I really thought it was his time. I really, really hoped it would have been.

But I should overlook my broken heart and mend it with the fact the rest of the show was brilliant. I loved the Jr Tag match, I enjoyed the Bucks' challenge and hope it leads to an even stronger RPG3K push. Rocky's localized promo ("aho", the Osaka dialect word for idiot was used, which made me laugh) was great, too. Scurll winning shocked the hell out of me but I was super into it, and am totally fine with the fourway for Dome. Kenny spoke Japanese! And it was so good, I loved feeling how the crowd embraced him even more than previously. I'm on the fence about the Jericho announcement as a match, but it's a wild thing and I like wild twists in wrestling. And Jay White being back is going to be good, and they're giving him an amazing platform already. I'm hyped, because there is nobody better to give a guy their first match back from excursion than Tanahashi.

I will have to rewatch most of the matches since I watched in bits and pieces over the day, but I thought it was a great show and laid the table for a number of interesting directions for the Dome. But my heart still hurts, a lot.

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AlphabetJones
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by AlphabetJones » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:38 am

I think this is the freshest that NJPW has felt in a while, probably since Nakamura left and Kenny/Naito were moving up the card. This WK12 lineup gets me more excited for NJPW in 2018 than some of the more obvious routes would have.

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SgtBilko84
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by SgtBilko84 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:04 am

Heart sank when I saw that Cody/Kota picture. I actually enjoy Cody outside of Japan but he's not over there. His singles matches have all been met with little reaction.

Was I the only one underwhelmed by White's return? We all know he he's great it the ring but that look and the crowds reaction when they realised it was gonna be White vs Tana at The Dome were not great. Felt like the live crowd would have rather seen Tana call Ibushi back for a re match. Kinda felt that way a bit too. But I guess that's what Ibushi gets for fucking around on his contract. Don't sign and you end up with Cody!

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FilipPejic
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by FilipPejic » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:33 pm

I really hope that Cody drops the title to Dalton’s Castle at final battle so we get him and Ibushi
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Grammarian
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Grammarian » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:09 pm

It just hit me that on a show where David Finlay was on the preshow wrestling a Young Lion, Jay White closed the show with a major angle attacking and challenging Tanahashi. Remember back to those two working with each other constantly when they were starting out as Young Lions. Wow, were they ever in polar opposite positions on the last show.
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Ckkj14
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Ckkj14 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:11 pm

I am mad to have Omega v Beretta at ****3/4. Loved that match

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King Of Indy Style
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by King Of Indy Style » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:34 pm

World Tag League blocks are out! Jeff Cobb teams with Elgin, Sami Callihan teams with Juice, and CHUCK TAYLOR IS TEAMING WITH TRENT!!!!
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supersonic
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by supersonic » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:18 pm

armsofsleep wrote:When I watch a movie I don't think "well this is good but how much money did it make?" I watch for MY enjoyment. I know what ramifications it has for their business. I don't watch wrestling with the goal of expanding a global brand. I watch to enjoy it. Coming in and saying fans "don't understand" what they should or shouldn't enjoy because of abstract business reasons is fucking stupid, full stop.
This isn’t a dime-a-dozen message board with unemployed teenagers though. It’s supposed to be one that’s incredibly measured and with a finger on the pulse.

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armsofsleep
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by armsofsleep » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:28 pm

We are all in a super small bubble of hardcore fans, that's fine and good, doesn't change the fact that most of us are fans first and analysts second.

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Rainmaker_F7
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Rainmaker_F7 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:58 pm

Consider me a hardcore fan as well, and even though I've kinda worked myself into thinking Okada/Naito, Omega/Ibushi, Tana/Shibata and Hiromu/Ospreay as 4 major Dome matches, I am still happy with the card honestly. You could say the biggest problem is the 4 way, and it speaks volumes about the show, since we're all bitching and moaning about a match that has a floor not lower than ****.

I like how this year's WK is just kinda different. It's not the usual "two people from the big four main events, other two are in the semi-main", you have very fresh and unpredictable, yet logical stuff right there. Of course, from the in-ring perspective I'd love to see Tana wrestle a guy like Elgin or Sanad and ofc Omega vs Ibushi, but we all get why they did that and it's not like those matches we have won't deliver. I am sure we are getting excellent matches from Omega/Y2J and Tana/White, the 4 way will be excellent even though I still hate the idea. And Ibushi? As long as Suzuki faces Ishii or someone fresh and someone who is a guarantee of a great match, I don't mind Ibushi/Cody, for the "Hot topic" part of the audience with them doing two sweet in the cleaner tee as their twitter profile pic this probably seems like an awesome match, and would you prefer to see Ibushi in a midcard title match or as one of 49 participants of the Trios match, or TMW working Rambo?

Now, WTL. First of all, I like the idea of bringing new guys/young lions instead of main eventers, who have no business in WTL anyway. Cobb & Elgin sounds even better than Cobb & Riddle to me, altough with Mike's recent situation who the fuck knows if they are going 7-0 or losing every match here. What the fuck are those blocks though? A Block is loaded, B blocks looks like total garbage. Also Ishii and Suzuki in different blocks, but Suzuki is in a block with, oh god - Yoshi-Hashi and Goto. Unless they shot the angle w/Ishii on the final day ofc, this sucks, because him and Yano ain't winning. Chuckie T and Trent are going to kill it, what a great and unexpected news. Honestly though, would you all be surprised with KES/Goto and Hashi and Suzuki vs Ishii? Because even though the tag match sounds very lame, I wouldn't.

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