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SamoKuma
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by SamoKuma » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:35 am

I came from France with my wife To attend this hiroshima road to wrestling Dontaku and... it was awesome. I would tought that a "road to" show would have been a bit disapointing but man... crowd was hot as hell and quality was here from the bottom To the top card.

Since it was my very first NJPW show live, here some of my remarks :

- I Will NEVER AGAIN fast forward a new lions match. Yes, I often thought their bouts was a bit dull, confortably sat behind my computer watching it, but They really give their all in those match. And there is such a feeling of Power during their exchanges, this is really quite a thing.

- I sang (yelled) Kaze ni nare with the crowd. I can die happy now.

- Tama Tonga is quite popular. And Fale is REALLY impressive live. That doesn t transcribe as much on tv, but I understand Well fut They still keep him in ring. There is no 2 like him.

- Jay White is red hot. The whole building booed him and he showered with it like a prince. I read somewhere he would be a good babyface, and I Begin To think that toi, once he Will reverse this heel heat.

- 6 men tag team LIJ vs Chaos was freaking awesome. Sanada is popular as heck. If he commits To njpw like ibushi, he is at least IC materia easy.

- Naito is by far the most over of NJPW. Vast majority of crowd was wearing LIJ merch.

- Okada really is stellar. He moves like a king, even on a cool show like this for him.

- Jr tag team was INCREDIBLE. 5 stars match. Crowd was red hot after takagi, who have such a présence. Looks like a demon. Cannot be surprised if he touch the IWGP belt in the next two years. Can see him steal it from naito. And i never really been behind roppongi3k. Too goofy for my taste maybe, but their gave their all and it was fantastic. They won me, i am now a fan.

- after the show, I asked my wife who she prefered : she already new Taguchi and is very fond of him, she has been impressed by the présence ofTakagi, but the two unknown for Her she liked most were... Yoshi Hashi, because, I quote " I Feel sorry for him" and Goto, cause he is "cool".

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:20 pm

so ... do they have shingo unbeaten in BOSJ ?

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:35 pm

rollup wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:20 pm
so ... do they have shingo unbeaten in BOSJ ?
Possibly, if they are going to tell that story with anyone in this years field it will be with Shingo. Here's how I would break down the field:

Favourites: Dragon Lee, Shingo Takagi, Taiji Ishimori, Will Ospreay

If at least one, if not both of these are not in the finals, I will be shocked.

Dark Horse Finalists: El Desperado, Marty Scurll, Ryusuke Taguchi, Sho

I can't see any of the four above winning the tournament this year but I give them a bit more of a chance than the remainder of the field to be a surprise finalist.

Middle of the Pack: Bandido, Bushi, El Phantasmo (It's not really a mystery) Flip Gordon, Jonathan Gresham, Robbie Eagles, Tiger Mask, Titan, Yoh, Yoshinobu Kanemaru

History tells us that nearly everyone else will be a mass cluster of middling 4-5 records.

Bottom Feeders:
Rocky Romero, Taka Michinoku

These two have pretty much transitioned into the veteran jobber role. They might pick up a win or two against somebody but I will be surprised if both of them aren't the first to be eliminated from contention.

I will say that I was little worried for the health of the Junior Division, with KUSHIDA leaving, Hiromu injured and Ospreay possibly moving up to Heavyweight, but they've still managed to put out a stellar field for this years tournament. Ospreay staying for at least one more BOSJ obviously helps.

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Thu May 02, 2019 2:43 am

I've enjoyed most of what I've seen from this Dontaku tour so far - particularly the Sengoku Lord show and what I saw of the 3 Korakuens from last week - but there are just way too fucking many shows. I'm not even a particularly busy person, but it just seems like it's impossible to keep up with the amount of shows dropping on NJPW World lately.

The clear post-Sengoku Lord highlight was the Jr Tag Title match from last Friday. The buildup of the rivalry of the Shingo and SHO feud has just been tremendous, and the long sequence in the middle of this match where the two were trading blows was really exciting. The moment where SHO heroically pushed YOH out of the way of a Pumping Bomber was really awesome too. My only complaint about the match was that YOH winning with the Dragon Suplex felt a little out of nowhere. Terrific match though. The Okada/SHO vs. SANADA/Shingo match from one of the recent Korakuens (I've forgotten which one) was really awesome too, and it was cool to see some brief interactions between Okada and Shingo (which will surely be an IWGP Title match somewhere down the line). Okada/YOH vs. SANADA/BUSHI was really good as well.

I have a mostly positive opinion of the divisive White/Goto match from Hi No Kuni. I thought the wrestling was really strong (I even liked the closing stretch of reversals that I've seen a lot of people dunking on) but the match did not have the epic feel that you expect from a New Japan main event. It felt more like a really strong third from the top match. Also the way it was built with White constantly tearing Goto down verbally and also mostly dominating him physically it really felt like Goto should have won (prior to losing in a rematch), although I guess if White is going to be Okada's next challenger then there really wouldn't have been a good place for White to get his win back prior to that. But they should have had Goto pin White in one of the tags leading up to this match or something just to make the feud a little less dreary.

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Thu May 02, 2019 6:45 am

Frank Olson wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:43 am
I've enjoyed most of what I've seen from this Dontaku tour so far - particularly the Sengoku Lord show and what I saw of the 3 Korakuens from last week - but there are just way too fucking many shows. I'm not even a particularly busy person, but it just seems like it's impossible to keep up with the amount of shows dropping on NJPW World lately.
I agree with the sentiment that they are now probably overdoing it with the amount of stuff being broadcast on New Japan World. Is it really essential to show the non Korakuen Road To stops? (even if it does look like they are running bigger buildings than they used to for those shows) or do they really need to run Korakuen three times in succession ?; all of which were just your run of the mill road to cards.

That being said, I realise I'm not quite ready for New Japan to completely consume my life, so I've skipped most of the Road To stops.

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Thu May 02, 2019 11:52 am


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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Thu May 02, 2019 4:51 pm

rollup wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:52 am
If Tama's recognising his limits as a singles performer, then kudos to him. I hated his garbage G-1 last year (that goes for almost everyone else).

Credit where credit is due, he's been pretty good/entertaining so far this year but that's in tag matches and promos. Bad Luck Fale aside he's consistently been the worst G-1 participant for the past three years.

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thecubsfan
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by thecubsfan » Thu May 02, 2019 7:22 pm



It probably doesn't help the perception of the tag teams that they're treated like midcard (or worse) singles performers in the G1 every year. Doesn't really help Tama to go 3-6 at this point.

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Sat May 04, 2019 10:49 pm

The Dragon Lee vs. Ishimori match was fucking tremendous, and probably my favorite New Japan match of the year so far (the only one I might have liked as well or better was the Wrestle Kingdom main event). The speed that these guys can do such complicated and dangerous looking moves at is really remarkable, and they did a few things here that I don't think I've ever seen before. It was cool to see the Jr Title get a big main event spotlight. There was a real big fight feel to this one, and it felt like the action was a lot more vicious than we are used to seeing from this division.

I also really enjoyed today's junior showcase, with Dragon Lee and Ospreay taking on Ishimori and the debuting El Phantasmo. I've seen very little of Phantasmo's work from Rev Pro, but I thought he came off pretty impressive here. The audience seemed in awe of his high spots and it was a great idea to have him pin Ospreay to set up a rivalry going into Best of the Super Juniors (where I'm guessing they will probably main event the first night of their block).

Speaking of Best of the Super Juniors, it seems like it was a missed opportunity not to announce the blocks and some of the big matches on one of these Dontaku shows (or one of the million other shows from this tour). I know that English commentary said that those announcements are coming Tuesday, but it's just weird that they wouldn't have done them with a bigger spotlight.

On the heavyweight front I was really impressed by Ishii vs. EVIL, which I thought was the best of today's matches. The way that they set up EVIL's Scorpion Deathlock throughout the tour (including by having Ishii unable to escape from it in the previous night's very good tag match) gave this match another dimension beyond just "two beefy dudes hitting each other really hard," and it was great to see Ishii turn the tables and apply his own version of his mentor's move.

The NEVER Title match had a really sluggish start, but once they actually started wrestling it was really entertaining. I don't know what you call that gutwrench piledriver thing that Jeff Cobb did (and I don't know if it's something that he uses regularly in ROH or elsewhere) but I was blown away by that. It does kind of feel like it was pointless to take the title off of Ospreay if they were just going to have Cobb immediately lose it to Taichi, but at least they made Taichi's victory seem like a big deal by having all of Suzukigun (or at least all the guys who were on this show) come out to celebrate with him. I hope that New Japan finds a consistent direction for the NEVER Title and/or Taichi soon. Taichi's having probably his best in-ring year ever (and certainly in the years that I've been watching), but he really needs to tone down the boring interference and stalling stuff that always seems to take up the first 10 minutes of his matches. He's really good once he actually starts wrestling, but it just takes too long to get there and my attention starts to drift.

I have mixed feelings about the IWGP Heavyweight Title match. I don't really like the chemistry between Okada and SANADA, as I find that they are too similar to each other and are both almost too smooth and graceful for their matches to ever feel like fights. However I do think that the way that they are slowly elevating SANADA by having him get closer and closer to beating Okada (or at least lasting longer each time out) is really interesting and cool, and it's definitely working because the live crowds seem to be ready for SANADA to hold the big belt. Personally I find SANADA's icy, expressionless demeanor a bit hard to connect with, and while I think he's a very good worker I can't say that I'm all that invested in his journey. But New Japan has clearly taken all the right steps to get him over with their core audience, and it almost seems like a sure thing at this point that SANADA will hold the IWGP Heavyweight Title someday.

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Sun May 05, 2019 10:30 pm

Frank Olson wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:49 pm
The Dragon Lee vs. Ishimori match was fucking tremendous, and probably my favorite New Japan match of the year so far (the only one I might have liked as well or better was the Wrestle Kingdom main event).
Agreed, fantastic match. Though he's not a full time NJPW wrestler, Dragon Lee feels like an integral part of the Junior Division at the moment, not just because he's champion right now but because of his emotional rivalry with Hiromu but also burgeoning one's with El Desperado and Taiji Ishimori.
I also really enjoyed today's junior showcase, with Dragon Lee and Ospreay taking on Ishimori and the debuting El Phantasmo.
For me it was a perfectly executed showcase for El Phantasmo and made him look like a threat for the Best of the Super Juniors (bumping him up to Dark Horse status after that showing). He came out to zero reaction but he soon had the crowd oohing and aahing for his flippy/high spots.
Speaking of Best of the Super Juniors, it seems like it was a missed opportunity not to announce the blocks and some of the big matches on one of these Dontaku shows (or one of the million other shows from this tour). I know that English commentary said that those announcements are coming Tuesday, but it's just weird that they wouldn't have done them with a bigger spotlight.
I thought that too, not having it announced during the middle of one of the Dontaku show's just feels really underwhelming to me. Doing the Block/big match announcements, right after Phantasmo's debut would have been ideal.
On the heavyweight front I was really impressed by Ishii vs. EVIL, which I thought was the best of today's matches. The way that they set up EVIL's Scorpion Deathlock throughout the tour (including by having Ishii unable to escape from it in the previous night's very good tag match) gave this match another dimension beyond just "two beefy dudes hitting each other really hard," and it was great to see Ishii turn the tables and apply his own version of his mentor's move.
The way the feud started off, I thought it was going to be one of those 'two beefy dudes hitting each other really hard' matches or lets just say a rehash of the NEVER title matches Ishii had with the likes of Shibata and Goto, but they ended up surprising me with something more nuanced. Not that we should ever be surprised these days about what Ishii can bring to the table. Those who have seen maybe one or two Ishii matches, will just see him as this short stocky guy who has strong style brawls but he brings subtle differences and some surprising twists to near enough every match he is in.

EVIL does feel like the one Ishii will pass the torch to, in terms of having that core style of being a brawler but being adaptable enough not be one-dimensional with it.
The NEVER Title match had a really sluggish start, but once they actually started wrestling it was really entertaining.
If you want to show someone the absolutely perfect example of Taichi in 2019 and why he's such a divisive figure amongst the New Japan fanbase. The opening portion of the match is definitely 'Taichi Go Home' but once he started wrestling and finished up with the frustrating BS cheating (mostly)/stalling, then he showed why he's winning a good portion of the fan base over.
I have mixed feelings about the IWGP Heavyweight Title match. I don't really like the chemistry between Okada and SANADA, as I find that they are too similar to each other and are both almost too smooth and graceful for their matches to ever feel like fights.
It probably could have benefited by having 10 minutes chopped off, not every IWGP Heavyweight title match has to be 30 minute plus epic (but they seem to have got stuck into this mindset). I know exactly what you mean about the Okada vs SANADA matches, they do feel like exhibitions rather than real fights. They are missing that extra spark against one another to take their matches to that next level. Being too similar to each other is one thing but also, as of right now their rivalry is too friendly.

It also doesn't help that SANADA's main event opportunities always come along when he has next to zero chances of winning. We all he wasn't beating Okada at the New Japan Cup (because they were never going to do Jay White vs SANADA at MSG) and we all knew he wasn't winning here either, as they title had been hot potatoed from Omega to Tanahashi to White and then to Okada) with a couple of zero defence reigns at the beginning of the year.

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Tue May 07, 2019 5:17 pm

BOSJ 26 - Blocks have been announced per NJPW 1972

A BLOCK

TAKA Michinoku
Titan
Yoshinobu Kanemaru
Marty Scurll
Jonathan Gresham
SHO
Shingo Takagi
Dragon Lee
Taiji Ishimori
Tiger Mask

B BLOCK

Robbie Eagles
Flip Gordon
El Desperado
Bandido
El Phantasmo
Will Ospreay
BUSHI
Ryusuke Taguchi
YOH
Rocky Romero

Notable matchups IMO:
Obviously, SHO vs Shingo that they've been building since Shingo's debut.

Eagles v Ospreay - ospreay said he wanted to help build the Aussie wrestling scene and his two matches with Ospreay were keys to that. I haven't watched either yet, but everyone says they're awesome.

Ospreay v Bandido - just two top juniors going at it, they were apparently awesome at Wrestlecon and they'll probably kill it again

Lee vs Ishimori - rematch of a great title match we just go

Shingo v Ishimori - Dragongate v Noah . . . on the cerulean blue. Two top imports goin at it, should be great

Yoh v Rocky - Rocky going against one of his boys, should be amusing

Taka v Yoshinobu - there's gonna be shennanigans. I can't wait. Hope it's as fun as Taka v Taichi from a few years ago

SHO v Dragon Lee - gonna be fun

Gresham v Suzuki gun guys - as Lanza put it, this will be "grimey"

Basically, the theres about 4 guys each block that will be awesome in any combination and the rest are interesting too. Great work imo

Ospreay looks like the clear favorite in B block, as he should be one of the headliners at Sumo Hall. He is worthy of a main event and can eat a loss, presumably to Shingo before moving to HW and . . . G1!!! (they BETTER give him a spot, he would be fantastic and a great g1 run would be the next step in his resume). El Despy is the only darkhorse i can imagine coming from that block. ELP is too new, Bandido is an ROH guest, and the rest aren't main event worthy. Eagles isn't there yet as he's too new but he could really get over

Shingo is the obvious A block winner. No pins, no subs since debut. Only a few guys would make any sense even going even with him. He should go undefeated, including beating SHO. Save the SHO win for a title challenge down the line. Ishimori, Lee, they can all eat losses to him without shame.

To me, the clear path to Wrestle Kingdom:

Shingo v Ospreay at Sumo Hall - Shingo Wins

Shingo v Dragon Lee at Dominion - Shingo Wins

Shingo carries the belt to WK14

Hiromu returns at KOPW, challenges for the belt at WK14

Shingo v Hiromu will move tickets

Eagles and ELP each score wins over R3K along the way. They form a tag team and feud with R3k for the Jr Tag belts

Ospreay loses to Shingo at Sumo Hall, moves to HW. He has already pinned a ton of BIG heavyweights: Archer, DBS, Ibushi, Cobb, leo Tonnga, Fale. He went toe to toe with Okada and White.

There should be an Ospreay - White or Ospreay - ZSJ top singles match at Royal Quest

At WK14, Ospreay gets a singles match for some title. IC, NEVER, British title.

This gives you THREE wrestle kingdom matches:
Shingo v Hirmo
Ospreay v someone for a belt
Eagles/ELP for jr tag belts against R3K or SZG

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yaritaihoudai
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by yaritaihoudai » Thu May 09, 2019 1:18 pm

Them not putting Despy in with Dragon Lee makes me feel like Despy is going to win the whole thing. He has a late tournament main event vs. Ospreay in Osaka - great chance for an upset. Ospreay's facing Taguchi on the final night in the first preliminary match. Taguchi can upset anyone. Despy is in the main event vs. El Phantasmo. I can see WIll going out to an early lead before losing his last two matches, with Despy having the tiebreaker to get to the final. For the final, Despy's got built in heat with Shingo from the Jr. tag feud. He can win via shenanigans or just straight up to solidify him as a top tier junior. Then we can get Lee vs. Despy lucha de apuestas match at Dominion or alternatively there's the option for Hiromu added to make it a 3-way dance, as he has history with both guys.

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yaritaihoudai
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by yaritaihoudai » Fri May 10, 2019 1:32 pm

yaritaihoudai wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:18 pm
Them not putting Despy in with Dragon Lee makes me feel like Despy is going to win the whole thing. He has a late tournament main event vs. Ospreay in Osaka - great chance for an upset. Ospreay's facing Taguchi on the final night in the first preliminary match. Taguchi can upset anyone. Despy is in the main event vs. El Phantasmo. I can see WIll going out to an early lead before losing his last two matches, with Despy having the tiebreaker to get to the final. For the final, Despy's got built in heat with Shingo from the Jr. tag feud. He can win via shenanigans or just straight up to solidify him as a top tier junior. Then we can get Lee vs. Despy lucha de apuestas match at Dominion or alternatively there's the option for Hiromu added to make it a 3-way dance, as he has history with both guys.
Well, Despy broke his jaw in a meaningless TakaTaichi death match vs. Jun Kasai so he's lost the chance for the biggest push of his career. So much for that, I guess.

I'm super pissed cause the Osaka show I'm going to suddenly became the worst show of the tour. Ospreay/Despy main even is now Ospreay/Douki. Douki? Fookin Who-the-fuck-Douki, get the fook outta here! Can't even give us Liger as a make-good.

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Tigerkinney
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Tigerkinney » Fri May 10, 2019 6:31 pm

yaritaihoudai wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:32 pm

Well, Despy broke his jaw in a meaningless TakaTaichi death match vs. Jun Kasai so he's lost the chance for the biggest push of his career. So much for that, I guess.

I'm super pissed cause the Osaka show I'm going to suddenly became the worst show of the tour. Ospreay/Despy main even is now Ospreay/Douki. Douki? Fookin Who-the-fuck-Douki, get the fook outta here! Can't even give us Liger as a make-good.
With two replacement wrestlers, B-Block is clearly the weaker of two Blocks now.

Pretty stupid of Despy to compete in a high-risk hardcore match just before BOSJ. He could have blown his chance of getting a big push here. I don't think he would made of the Finals but the way things were looking like he would be in the mix. Really bummed me don't get to witness the most Mexican sounding match ever between two wrestler's who aren't even Mexican :lol:

I'm not that fussed about Flip missing out and look forward to seeing what Ren Narita can do in the BOSJ (even if he is pretty much guaranteed to lose all of his matches).

They can't call on Liger as a replacement, as they did the whole Liger's last tournament angle two years ago (unlike some other wrestling promotions, I don't think NJPW have convenient bouts of amnesia when it comes to that sort of thing). Douki is probably not the most inspiring of replacements and reeks of a desperate, last minute addition because better known options weren't available but I'm not going to completely shit on him, before I've seen his work. It's a massive and unexpected opportunity for him to impress.
Last edited by Tigerkinney on Fri May 10, 2019 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Fri May 10, 2019 10:45 pm

yeah, losing despy is rough. I was even looking forward to see how much Flip improved

Narita is fine - he won't win any matches, but the dude is looking like a future star so this will be tremendous experience for him

Ospreay is gonna waltz to the Finals now, no one can sniff him in the A block

he'll make El Phantasmo, Narita, and Eagles look like studs tho

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