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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by DXvsNWO » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:17 pm

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Jacob's Bawks » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:29 pm

mprentice84 wrote: Not sure what to think of the NEVER angle. I love Nagata, but I'm not sure he's long for the title. Going back to Shibata this soon doesn't get me excited at all. I'll have to wait and see what happens next week.
I think he'll lose to EVIL or SANADA during the G1 to set up a match at Destruction and drop the title there. Hopefully EVIL will take the title so he will establish himself more and will have something to do, while SANADA feuds with Okada. Although that last part is pure fantasy booking and unlikely to happen in the near future :/
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:25 am

We are just a matter of hours away from Dominion, but I want to take one last opportunity to gush over the awesome Best of the Super Juniors tournament. Over the past week I've been rewatching the most notable matches and I'm still blown away by the overall quality of the tournament from both a match quality and booking standpoint. Prior to Wrestle Kingdom 9 the only New Japan I'd seen were the old Super J Cups and some of the Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask matches, but throughout most of 2015 and even early on this year I was way less interested in the juniors than the heavyweights, but they've done a really amazing job rebuilding the division over the past few months. I think it's going to be a challenge for the G1 to measure up to the Best of the Super Juniors this year.

My 10 favorite matches from this year's tournament:

1/2) Kyle O'Reilly vs. KUSHIDA/Will Ospreay vs. Ricochet

I have a hard time choosing which one of these is my favorite, so I'll call it a draw for now. These are not just my favorite matches of this tournament, but my favorites of the year so far overall. They are so different that they are hard to compare, but they are both flawlessly executed. O'Reilly/KUSHIDA really feels like a legitimate athletic contest, whereas Ospreay/Ricochet is a state of the art high flying exhibition. Both are among the most purely exciting matches that I've ever seen.

3) Will Ospreay vs. Ryusuke Taguchi

The finals may not have been quite as explosive as the top two matches on a move for move basis, but the exquisite in-ring storytelling made this a fittingly exciting ending to the tournament. Ospreay's method of selling his leg damage by hitting his high risk aerial moves on one leg is so cool. There were so many great little details in this match, such as Taguchi hitting Ospreay to keep him down when they were both rushing back to the ring to beat the 20 count, or Ospreay taking a long look at KUSHIDA on commentary and his title belt while he was on the outside as if to get one final rush of inspiration. Both guys sold their desperation to win exceptionally well.

4) Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Matt Sydal

I was shocked by the high quality of this match when the first time I watched it, and it seems even better and more significant now given how the rest of the tournament played out. This is the match where Taguchi got serious and reminded us all that he is a great wrestler. He enters the ring playing a recorder with a Big Bird balloon on his head and exits as a badass grappler with a nasty cut on his face. Although the cut was obviously an accident it really feels in hindsight like it kicked off Taguchi's story for this tournament, as if getting busted open made him realize that he needed to buckle down and get serious if he was going to hang in there with all of the great young talent in his block.

5) Matt Sydal vs. Kyle O’Reilly

These guys have tremendous chemistry, and this is an incredibly smooth and fluid match, especially considering the complexity and high degree of difficulty of virtually every move that they throw at each other. Sydal has a way of making his high flying moves seem like natural and practical counters to O'Reilly's strikes and submission holds, and it's really fun to watch. These two had a very similar match at Supercard of Honor, but this was superior because the tournament setting made it feel important whereas in ROH it was just kind of a randomly booked exhibition that only existed to be a good match.

6) KUSHIDA vs. Ryusuke Taguchi

KUSHIDA is the best at making limbwork exciting, because he has such a huge variety of ways to attack his opponent's arms to set up the Hoverboard Lock, and this match was a great demonstration of that. Taguchi did a great job of selling the damage to his arm throughout.

7) Rocky Romero vs. Gedo

In these round robin tournaments there is always at least one match where two guys from the same stable face each other and pretend that they are going to have a friendly competition until one of them tries to stab the other in the back, and then suddenly they are in the middle of a heated battle. This match is by far the best execution of that concept that I've ever seen, and a rare comedy match that is genuinely funny the whole way through. Baretta (as Romero's corner man) apologizing to Gedo as he repeatedly kicks him was one of the tournament's finest moments.

8) Will Ospreay vs. Bobby Fish

The best match from any of the single-cam tournament shows is a great contest between the no-nonsense veteran striker Bobby Fish and the flashy high flying upstart Will Ospreay.

9) Volador Jr. vs. Jushin Thunder Liger

This is one of the matches that didn't especially stand out to me on a first watch for whatever reason, but other people's positive reaction to it made me give it a second look when I was rewatching things and I'm glad I did because this is a really fun match between two fan-favorite veterans. Liger seems to really put in extra energy whenever he's facing visiting talent, and it's just incredible that he's taking high risk moves like the Spanish Fly at his age. Both guys had really strong tournaments, but they were both at their best here.

10) Tiger Mask vs. Will Ospreay

One of the tournament's hidden gems is this brief match from one of the single-cam B Block shows. Grumpy Tiger Mask is a great opponent for cocky youngster Ospreay, as evidenced by the hilarious moment where Tiger gets annoyed with the Aerial Assassin's repeated kip up spot and counters by simply stomping on his chest. There's also a cool bit where Tiger Mask barely beats the 20 count and Ospreay responds by immediately hitting him with a standing Shooting Star Press.

Runner Ups - Baretta vs. Will Ospreay, KUSHIDA vs. Matt Sydal, Will Ospreay vs. Volador Jr., Rocky Romero vs. Kyle O'Reilly, BUSHI vs. KUSHIDA

Great Moments Not Represented on This List - David Finlay pinning Gedo clean, Chase Owens instructing the audience to clear their seats only to throw his opponents back into the ring instead

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by ayaashm » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:07 am

Something I just thought of, KUSHIDA could probably lose to Ospreay because I see BUSHI challenging Ospreay for the title as he has a win over the Champion and that would continue the LiJ x Chaos feud.
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:42 am

The number of people complaining on Taima about finishes are annoying me. This company doesn't exist to book your short-term flights of fancy.


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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by $hawn000 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:17 am

Danwaka wrote:The number of people complaining on Taima about finishes are annoying me. This company doesn't exist to book your short-term flights of fancy.
I agree, but I wouldn't have pulled the title off
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Garuda » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:36 pm

Dominion was great! Very satisfying show.

I thought Ishii/Y-H vs. SANADA/BUSHI was the sleeper match of the night. Y-H submitting SANADA and Ishii's reaction to it got maybe my 2nd biggest pop.

Goto/EVIL was fun, Ospraey/KUSHIDA was fun, Nagata/Shibata was fun... I will say that I had hoped those last two would be ****+, so maybe a tinge of disappointment. But It was a night of ***1/2 and ***3/4 matches, so I'm not complaining.

If there was one true disappointment it was the Omega/Elgin match. I loved the finish, and I generally liked the final minutes of it when they committed to the insanity. But until then it was in the uncanny valley between "actual match" and "gimmick insanity," and it felt muddy. Not bad, but I had my hopes up. I agree with Taylor's review in total, including the feeling that Omega's cooling off. I hope he gets his mojo back, because I'm sure he can.

Naito/Okada totally delivered, though. That was the one ****+ match of the night, and it killed. Okada regains the title with gusto, and the lack of schmozz (plus the Rainmaker kickout) gave a great shine to Naito. Naito would've continued a fun run with the belt, but Okada's reclamation worked well and gives us a less predictable path to WK11. As always, NJPW knows how to make things way better then they seem on paper. A lot of that is Okada, who is easy to take for granted, but knocked it all the way out of the park yet again. The man's a treasure.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:38 pm

Danwaka wrote:The number of people complaining on Taima about finishes are annoying me. This company doesn't exist to book your short-term flights of fancy.
Gedo is a trendy whipping boy, despite a pretty great track record. It is what it is. People tend hyper focus on small annoying things while ignoring the bigger picture, and his booking strength has always been long term focus.

90% of booking related complaints are from people upset because their favorites aren't being pushed to their liking, or just wrestling fans being wrestling fans (meaning we can't help but to be miserable about everything). I've expressed this on the podcast, but I'm at the point where I just eye roll the large majority of booking complaints and treat them as the white noise that they are.

In relation to NJPW, Gedo does some frustrating things, and is ultra conservative, but so many of the major critiques we heard over the years have been proven to be entirely wrong this year in terms of New Japan's inability to create stars. The company was well prepared for the loss of three major draws, so anyone concerned with the progression of SANADA or EVIL or Ospreay or anybody else would be wise to look at recent history. I always say this, but you can't give everyone a mega push at once. NJPW does as good a job (if not better) than any place else at getting people ready underneath. It is very obvious SANADA is going to be a top line player, but it isn't happening tomorrow. Or maybe even next year. Or the year after. Until then, we'll have to listen to people whine about him being "buried" every time he drops a fall when he's in a feud, like we saw last night.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Joe Lanza » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:47 pm

The problem with keeping the title on Naito is that Okada, who you just crowned as ace in January, would look like a total goof in losing two title matches in a row, plus the 14 straight losses or whatever it was in the CHAOS vs LIJ semi mains during the BOSJ. It would have then required total domination in winning the G1 in order to make him look strong again, and people surely would have complained about the predictability of that, so you can't win. You can counter with "then don't do the Naito/Okada rematch so soon", and if that is your stance then fine, but you have to then give me the match you would have done instead. This is a business, and this is the second biggest show of the year in a big building that you have to find a way to fill. Naito/Okada was probably the only match they had that could do that, especially with Tanahashi out.

I feel bad for Omega. He had a real hot feud going with Tanahashi, and Elgin was a nice surrogate, but it isn't the same. I'd think about keeping the IC belt on Elgin and moving Omega up into the main line picture.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Buzz Sawyer » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:26 pm

King Of Indy Style wrote:Thank You Briscoes.
Highly unlikely they hold the belts for more then 2 months.
Who's Rob Viper ?

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:24 pm

Joe Lanza wrote: I feel bad for Omega. He had a real hot feud going with Tanahashi, and Elgin was a nice surrogate, but it isn't the same. I'd think about keeping the IC belt on Elgin and moving Omega up into the main line picture.
I think that Omega is going to be the most interesting person to watch in the G1, not just because he'll have a lot of fresh and potentially great matches but also because he's in this kind of weird place right now where his main event push didn't quite take (partially due to circumstances out of his control such as the Tanahashi injury and Nakamura leaving the company, but also arguably due to him appearing more often as a goofy comedy guy than as a serious competitive threat) and it seems like he's got his eye on moving to WWE whenever his deal with New Japan is up. I think that seeing who he wins and loses to in G1 will tell the tale of whether Gedo wants to move forward with him as a potential main eventer or whether he'll be spending most of his time in the Never Six Man Tag division.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by GuestTimekeeper » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:31 pm

The only thing I would complain about booking wise was LIJ getting swept. Surely Goto could have stood to lose?

Anyways, Okada winning really opens up the G1. Okada/Naito is still the biggest match they have, so a G1 win for Naito would be easiest. But a Shibata win, or even Okada, would not be out of the question.

I just can't get behind Omega. Too goofy. He would make a better Starscream, a coniving second in command, then a leader.

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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by jesse » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:21 am

Shibata is the NEVER champ. His next match is against Honma. He's not winning the G1. Love yourself more than that. Don't do this.
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:04 am

Joe Lanza wrote: Gedo is a trendy whipping boy, despite a pretty great track record. It is what it is. People tend hyper focus on small annoying things while ignoring the bigger picture, and his booking strength has always been long term focus. 90% of booking related complaints are from people upset because their favorites aren't being pushed to their liking, or just wrestling fans being wrestling fans (meaning we can't help but to be miserable about everything). I've expressed this on the podcast, but I'm at the point where I just eye roll the large majority of booking complaints and treat them as the white noise that they are.
I used to roll my eyes when you and Rich would address this in the podcasts because I always ignored chat and watched on full screen but holy shit do I get it now. Even when it's a good thing going someone has to complain.
In relation to NJPW, Gedo does some frustrating things, and is ultra conservative, but so many of the major critiques we heard over the years have been proven to be entirely wrong this year in terms of New Japan's inability to create stars. The company was well prepared for the loss of three major draws, so anyone concerned with the progression of SANADA or EVIL or Ospreay or anybody else would be wise to look at recent history. I always say this, but you can't give everyone a mega push at once. NJPW does as good a job (if not better) than any place else at getting people ready underneath. It is very obvious SANADA is going to be a top line player, but it isn't happening tomorrow. Or maybe even next year. Or the year after. Until then, we'll have to listen to people whine about him being "buried" every time he drops a fall when he's in a feud, like we saw last night.
I actually find his style refreshing as someone whose entry point was WWE. Things proceed on a slower basis with less television, and while I'd have liked a little more meat on the bone in terms of the tag team divisions (seriously just merge the divisions and take the ones not in tag title contention over to six man contention) and slightly more frequent title defenses (The NEVER titles feel like they should be featuring more often on a tour show, like a Shibata-Tonga or a Nagata-Fale match), the guy is pretty solid and has a solid roster that he manages better than most other companies do their own. I liked YOSHI-HASHI since WK9 but he's been a revelation for most people watching now, and EVIL's matured pretty quickly since return. There's stinkers to be sure like Goto who's not yet found himself in CHAOS (sidenote, I think he'd look badass with some wolf-themed gear for some reason), but overall things are flowing pretty great from top to bottom.

I don't know, I just don't get how people will themselves to be negative nancies.
Joe Lanza wrote:The problem with keeping the title on Naito is that Okada, who you just crowned as ace in January, would look like a total goof in losing two title matches in a row, plus the 14 straight losses or whatever it was in the CHAOS vs LIJ semi mains during the BOSJ.
Mm. The CHAOS heavies mounted their comeback while the juniors failed to step up on the undercard. Right now the story feels like Okada's learning how to step into Nakamura's place as a leader and as an example, as opposed to being the blue-chip prodigy he was before.
It would have then required total domination in winning the G1 in order to make him look strong again, and people surely would have complained about the predictability of that, so you can't win. You can counter with "then don't do the Naito/Okada rematch so soon", and if that is your stance then fine, but you have to then give me the match you would have done instead. This is a business, and this is the second biggest show of the year in a big building that you have to find a way to fill. Naito/Okada was probably the only match they had that could do that, especially with Tanahashi out.
I would have thought Makabe would have sold really well regarding tickets, actually. He's relatively known with the casuals with his candy show and Naito has humiliated Honma on a couple of occasions so the two of them might have drawn well enough with a fresh match while Honma rested up.
I feel bad for Omega. He had a real hot feud going with Tanahashi, and Elgin was a nice surrogate, but it isn't the same. I'd think about keeping the IC belt on Elgin and moving Omega up into the main line picture.
Omega moving up might be too soon. The tag titles are kind of a mess now especially with the no.1 contenders seemingly being Adam Page and Yujiro Takahashi, but maybe we could do Omega-Shibata for the NEVER title and then have Omega-Ibushi for NEVER at WK and Shibata-Tanahashi for IC at WK to get both guys over on the biggest stage of them all. Leaves Naito-Okada III as the main plus whatever other matches you slot CHAOS, Bullet Club and Los Ingobernales in.

I'm sorta at the point where BC needs to break apart into Guerillas of Destiny (The Tongans) and The Elite (Omega, Cole, Page, Hall & Bucks) with Takashi maybe jumping on Los Ingobernales as a heater, but that probably won't happen until after WK, if at all.

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