NJPW (Discussion)

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SamoKuma
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by SamoKuma » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:13 pm

At those time of Chaos turmoil + LIJ talking about a potential new member...

May be crazy but I can fantasize a rock bottomed broken Okada aligning with LIJ.

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rollup
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by rollup » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:10 am

oh boy a three way at the sumo hall
while i have enjoyed the wrestling , this being the elite nonsense is wearing thin. its obvious they have milked NJPW and i would be fine if the fed just picked them up instead of the annual will they join or will they stay nonsense

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:54 am

Overall I really enjoyed last night's show, but that ending announcement of the Triple Threat IWGP Title match for King of Pro Wrestling definitely seemed to suck the energy out of the crowd, and kind of put a damper on how I felt coming out of the show as well. I mean kudos to Cody for marketing himself really well and everything, but I'm really tired of seeing him in a New Japan ring.

The undercard tag matches were really good, and the first half of the show flew by in a way that New Japan shows rarely do. Everyone seemed motivated and determined to impress. Even the matches that seemed more suited to ROH than New Japan delivered. Kazarian countering Page's apron Shooting Star Press into a Codebreaker was one of the wilder spots of the night.

I thought that Scurll/Ospreay was match of the night. I know that some people are annoyed by Ospreay's sometimes cartoony selling and by his Twitter antics and stuff, but for me he might be the most purely exciting wrestler to watch on the whole New Japan roster. He was so relentless in this match that Marty didn't even have time to do his dumb comedy spots that have been dragging his work down for the past year or so. I was genuinely surprised that Scurll won, and I hope that he brings this same level of work to his King of Pro Wrestling match with KUSHIDA.

The Tag Title match was really good, and probably the best outing that G.O.D. have had since losing to Honma and Makabe in the 2016 World Tag League finals. As with Ospreay, I can understand how the Young Bucks rub some fans the wrong way for a variety of reasons, but they always deliver in these big match situations. I was glad that they kept the BCOG antics almost completely out of this match.

The US Title match didn't do a ton for me. As I alluded to earlier I just really don't think that Cody is good enough to be part of the New Japan roster, at least in such a prominent position. I guess that his slow-paced Southern style heel work does stand out on this roster (especially on a show like this, where every other match was worked at a ferocious pace) but his style just seems so dated and out of place to me. Plus it seems like a lot of his heel shenanigans are just there to distract from his weak bell-to-bell work. I don't mind Juice losing the title so quickly, since he has the kind of underdog charisma that wouldn't jibe with a long win streak, but I just wish that he had lost the title to Zack Sabre Jr or somebody else who he lost to in the G1.

The main event was really good and probably about on par with the great Golden Lovers vs. Ishii/Ospreay match from the Destruction tour. All four guys worked really hard and it was a wild spotfest.

Kevin Kelly helped to temper some of JR's worst tendencies a little bit. JR still came off as clueless and out of touch, especially when he was talking about how dumb fighting spirit no-selling spots are, or when he was comparing the “three-man unit” LIJ to the Fabulous Freebirds, but at least this time he had a broadcast partner who knew the names and current storylines of the wrestlers on the show.

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Danwaka
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:32 am

I'm firmly convinced at this point that this has been Gedo's worst year, creatively speaking. From Wrestle Kingdom to now, I've just been feeling a general malaise of apathy build up as things pan out. The matches are as great as they've ever been, but the main event booking has just come off as a mess.

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SgtBilko84
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by SgtBilko84 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:52 pm

Cody only there to save Kenny vs Ibushi for further down the line.

Gonna be the semi main for the 2020 Dome.

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:58 pm

Yeah, Cody has to eat the pin here by Omega. Any other outcome leads to some real wierd shit. If ibushi pins Cody, all of a sudden you have a freakin' title change . . . and i guess Omega would get a singles rematch? That seems like 2019 business

Cody winning would be the dumbest fuckin' idea and won't happen.

Kenny pinning Ibushi would trigger some resentment, perhaps . . . he'd retain, set up storyline for Ibushi-Omega next year some time?

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saviorofstrongstyle
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by saviorofstrongstyle » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:18 am

If I had to guess, I think Ibushi is taking the fall. I don't think Cody is getting pinned as the newly crowned US Champ, and as NWA champ.
Pretty sure they made it a threeway with Cody in order to 'protect' Ibushi in his loss i.e. either some shenanigans or some shit like Kenny was able to pin Ibushi because Cody was involved etc. instead of doing a straight forward Kenny Ibushi rematch where Kenny gets his win back clean already. Adding to further strife between Kenny and Ibushi. To be clear, I'm just guessing here and I absolutely hate my guess and would much rather Cody take the fall.
I'm guessing they will add enough strife between Ibushi and Kenny anyways with them both attempting to pin Cody after giving him the Golden Lovers finisher.

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Gerard
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Gerard » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:41 am

Given the arc of the Cody vs. Juice feud, I think a rematch is likely for the Tokyo Dome especially given it's where Cody first beat Juice. I think Juice's loss in Long Beach is part of underdog storyline. Plus often with New Japan singles titles, your first reign with a title doesn't last long.

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Danwaka
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Danwaka » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:11 am

Does anyone know why NJPW is running these "Lion's Break Project" shows?

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Gerard
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Gerard » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:30 pm

Danwaka wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:11 am
Does anyone know why NJPW is running these "Lion's Break Project" shows?
Because Bushiroad is running a convention based on their trading card game at the same time. The NJ stuff is an added attraction. https://www.charaexpo-usa.com/

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Frank Olson
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Frank Olson » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:33 pm

Danwaka wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:32 am
I'm firmly convinced at this point that this has been Gedo's worst year, creatively speaking. From Wrestle Kingdom to now, I've just been feeling a general malaise of apathy build up as things pan out. The matches are as great as they've ever been, but the main event booking has just come off as a mess.
For me the problem with the booking this year is that, while they are doing a lot of things that make business sense and that have even led to some great individual moments, the ways that they've gotten to those points have often felt really forced and inorganic. Also I feel that they've given hot starts to a lot of angles without bringing most of them to a satisfying endpoint.

Take a look at Tanahashi's path through the early part of the year for example. He had that very dramatic match with Suzuki at New Beginning, where he lost the Intercontinental Title in devastating and humiliating fashion (via referee stoppage). This felt like a really significant moment to me at the time, and I thought that we were gearing up for a big redemption story where Tanahashi would fight tooth and nail to get back at Suzuki and regain that title in an epic match. Instead Tanahashi took about a month off to sell some injuries, came back for the New Japan Cup and took another devastating high profile loss to Zack Sabre Jr in the finals. Then his next big match was an IWGP Title shot against Okada at Dontaku, which made sense given that he was trying to prevent his defense record from being shattered, but was really awkward timing wise given that Tanahashi's most recent high profile matches were definitive losses that you would think his character should've been dying to avenge. Instead the whole Tanahashi vs. Suzukigun thing was swept under the rug and the IC Title was bizarrely put back on Tetsuya Naito just so he could transition it onto Jericho. (And of course I think it goes without saying that they've basically given Naito nothing interesting to do since January 4th).

Meanwhile it seems like they have been trying to cram two years of storylines for Kenny Omega into one year because they are afraid that he might jump ship after the Tokyo Dome. So instead of the extended Golden Lovers tag team run that it seemed like we were going to get at one time and that could've elevated the Heavyweight Tag scene to main event status they pivoted back to Omega as a singles star and had him beat Okada for the IWGP Title. To be fair I did absolutely love that Dominion match (in fact it's my favorite match of the year) and in some ways it did feel like the logical culmination of the last two years of IWGP Title booking, but it also felt odd that it happened so soon after Omega and Ibushi reunited as a tag team. The Golden Lovers beat The Young Bucks in Long Beach in by far the biggest tag match that New Japan has run since I've been watching, but then Omega basically went back to being a singles guy with Ibushi as his occasional sidekick while meanwhile The Young Bucks were the ones who went on to hold the Tag Titles.

In fairness there have been some examples of really good booking this year, like the successful pushes of both Zack Sabre Jr and Jay White as borderline-main event heels. I would also say that the creative around the junior division has been a lot stronger this year than it has been the last few years, and in general the undercard stuff has seemed like less of an afterthought than it has in other years.

So while I wouldn't say that New Japan's creative has been terrible overall this year, I will say that it has been pretty wonky. Gedo usually has a skill for building storylines so that they peak at the exact right moment, but this year it seems like he's really had to force a lot of things into position to allow Okada to break the defense record, to appease the Elite guys, and to work around Jericho's demands. As far as I know business hasn't really suffered from any of these decisions yet, but from a creative standpoint it does feel like the major storylines have been less satisfying this year than they were the last few years.

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Gerard
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by Gerard » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:14 am

Frank Olson wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:33 pm

Meanwhile it seems like they have been trying to cram two years of storylines for Kenny Omega into one year because they are afraid that he might jump ship after the Tokyo Dome. So instead of the extended Golden Lovers tag team run that it seemed like we were going to get at one time and that could've elevated the Heavyweight Tag scene to main event status they pivoted back to Omega as a singles star and had him beat Okada for the IWGP Title. To be fair I did absolutely love that Dominion match (in fact it's my favorite match of the year) and in some ways it did feel like the logical culmination of the last two years of IWGP Title booking, but it also felt odd that it happened so soon after Omega and Ibushi reunited as a tag team. The Golden Lovers beat The Young Bucks in Long Beach in by far the biggest tag match that New Japan has run since I've been watching, but then Omega basically went back to being a singles guy with Ibushi as his occasional sidekick while meanwhile The Young Bucks were the ones who went on to hold the Tag Titles.
In the post match interview after Fighting Spirit Unleashed, Omega talked about how he thought tag team wrestling is important and how he and Ibushi had more to prove as a tag team. As someone who thinks Tanahashi is beating Omega at WK, and that Omega is staying, I think giving the Golden Lovers the tag titles soon after WK is a good way to transition Omega out of the title scene but still keep him near the top of the card and raise the profile of the tag titles. The Golden Lovers defending the tag titles is something that can headline shows.

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:41 am

The golden lovers reformation created a high profile Tag Team that could headlight smaller shows like FSU, SSE, korakouens, road to type shows

It should also serve as a catalyst for Kenny turning on ibushi and them having a brutal match for the title at a dominion or Tokyo dome

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:40 pm

Watching the KOPW press conference and goddam Jay White just demanded that kenny show appreciation for causing the Golden Lovers to reunite and for softening up Okada for him. Goddamn i love this guy

Also, fascinating to me:

Kenny v Tanahashi, kenny is the heel, stomping on the beloved japanese hero as the foreigner upsetting the apple cart

Kenny v Switchblade, Kenny is the face, since Switchblade has heeled damn near everyone


EDIT
Cody not going heel at this presser? curious

Amused that Cody and Kenny are essentially explaining how a championship triple threat works to the japanese press. lol

Kenny called Jay a "kindred spirit" :shock: Respects his desire, but not a fan of getting beat up or his catchphrase :lol:

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OptionZero
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Re: Strong Style Spirit - New Japan catch all thread

Post by OptionZero » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:20 pm

Whooooo man. Lot to unpack. Not the best show for matches, but an IMMENSE show for angles and future roster reshuffling

1) Ospreay pinned Taichi, which means we're getting Ospreay Taichi for the NEVER title at some point, which means Ospreay is winning and facing Ibushi at WK13. YES PLEASE AND THANK YOU GEDO. That match is going to be absolute fire and I cannot wait to see Ospreay take the NEVER title to new heights with awesome matches against weight divisions, a sorely needed development. This title should be the work rate belt

2) Shinto joins LIJ. Chalk result but no complaints. He and Bushi will be a new flavor in the Super Jr Tag league

3) Robbie Eagles joins Bullet Club OG, teams with Ishimori at Tag league. Also awesome. Just like that the jr division is restocked, tons of fresh matchups now.

4) Y2J attacks EVIL, spoiling the ZSJ matchup, but Naito saves EVIL from ZSJ. About time LIJ got something to do, now we're getting a jr tag challenger, ZSj - Naito and EVIL - y2J at power struggle and inevitably, Naito-y2k rematch at the dome. Predictable but entertaining

5) jay White joins BCOG. Man there's a lot going on here. white loses after his shenanigans backfire, so we solidify Omega-Tanahashi main eventing the dome. That's easy. Okada saves Tanahashi, there's a wrinkle. We might actually get Okada and Tanahashi TEAMING UP which will be surreal. Then, we got BCOG wandering out and playing games before a gang bang on Okada with gedo and white

So...in Kayfabe, was this the plan all along? jay white is one Machiavellian son of a gun if he had this all lined up: reject Kenny's offer, join CHAOS, use CHAOS as a vehicle to advance his career while allying with Gedo AND Tama to disrupt both CHAOS and bullet club, to backstab Okada, fracture BC elite and take over BC.

As much fun as that is, I think the NON kayfabe impact is more important. tama is done as leader in ring and on the mic, thank goodness, White and gedo can do the talking, white can handle the main event stuff. Tama goes back to Tag matches where he's fine. Fake goes back to being muscle

gedo has now conveniently inserted himself in Bullet club, a key trade mark, and also inserted a new leader and some life into Bullet club. By also adding ishimori this year and Robbie Eagles (announced on Twitter by Fale, confirmed by Kevin Kelly), BC now has new blood and ...reinforced against a mass exodus by The Elite. VERY CONVENIENT that NJPW now has some juice in Bullet club to succeed if the elite leave. A new jr team, a new leader, and gedo as mouthpiece. They'll be fine, just different

Whew

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