NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

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pclancy1990
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by pclancy1990 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:38 am

I feel like the same people who dislike Tanahashi/Ibushi because of the lack of selling love this Shibata/Ibushi match where there is very little selling.

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Chismo
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by Chismo » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:54 pm

Is there any updates on Shinsuke anyway? And he should never wear those awful pants again, looks awful.
pclancy1990 wrote:I feel like the same people who dislike Tanahashi/Ibushi because of the lack of selling love this Shibata/Ibushi match where there is very little selling.
That... doesn't make any sense.

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DIFH
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by DIFH » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:39 pm

To me it was pretty much like the Suzuki-Gun/BC interference in the Styles/Suzuki match where it didnt last long and really didn't hinder my enjoyment of the match, but it was completely unnecessary. The major difference being that this was the guys in the match doing something unnecessary as opposed to a stable trying to interfere and being thwarted before anything happens and the match goes on like normal.

I generally don't have a problem with those kind of sequences but in that match I really thought it was unnecessary. It wasn't Ishii/Shibata where they were going 100 mph and just knocking a guy down was an accomplishment. It was a well paced match which was my favorite thing about it. That spot ruined the pace

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Sticky Dreamboat
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by Sticky Dreamboat » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:59 pm

The sequence really didn't bother me because entertainment trumps everything else for me. Same reason I'm able to enjoy every Young Bucks match, if what's happening is exciting and high energy and I've bought into it, then a lack of psychology or weird selling won't ruin it for me. I totally get how those things are higher priorities for other viewers, and I can appreciate them, but they aren't a be all end all for me. I just like it when a match is fun and exciting.

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InYourCase
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by InYourCase » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:34 pm

Something to keep in mind if Nakamura vs. Ishii happens tonight - the Osaka show from the G1 two years ago featured Ishii vs. Shibata and Nakamura vs. Ibushi. Ishii vs. Shibata was such a spectacle that Nakamura put it upon himself to try and have the better match that night with Ibushi. Nak, throughout the tournament, tried to one-up Ishii because of his performance in Osaka. Now, two years later, the two meet in Osaka. If Nakamura is healthy enough to go even 95%, expect a phenomenal match.

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Chismo
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by Chismo » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:42 pm

Changing his pants should be priority, tbf.

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ceftaxias
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by ceftaxias » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:04 pm

Nakamura/Ishii from last year might be one of the more slept on matches out there, it's incredible and there wasn't too much talk about it at the time because of Styles/Suzuki.

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Tigerkinney
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by Tigerkinney » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:29 pm

Sticky Dreamboat wrote:The sequence really didn't bother me because entertainment trumps everything else for me. Same reason I'm able to enjoy every Young Bucks match, if what's happening is exciting and high energy and I've bought into it, then a lack of psychology or weird selling won't ruin it for me. I totally get how those things are higher priorities for other viewers, and I can appreciate them, but they aren't a be all end all for me. I just like it when a match is fun and exciting.
Got to say I'm of the same kind of mindset when it comes to my wrestling enjoyment. I'm not saying that things like in-ring psychology and selling aren't important, but I can overlook them not being 'perfect' if as Sticky Dreamboat says the match is exciting and buzzing with energy.

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Shining Wiz
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by Shining Wiz » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:06 am

Just got caught up to be ready for the am. Ibushi/Shibata was great, Kojima/Okada was really good and Naito/Styles may be my favourite match of the tournament so far.

Tournament hasn't been mind blowing so far, but 1/3 of the way through the intra block story lines are starting to come through, so the matches will start to mean more soon, most likely tomorrow. Both weekend shows should be pretty good, though if Nakamura is out tomorrow who knows what happens.

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shoe
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by shoe » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:59 am

The Fray Movement wrote:I've mentioned this on social media already, but thought I'd post it here for further discussion.

So, the big your turn/my turn/one count/kickout/do it again spot in the Ibushi/Shibata match that's the point of a lot of debate.

I was absolutely losing my shit during that match. Maybe its because I'm really into Shibata right now and he can do no wrong. Maybe I'm, unfortunately, finally getting into Ibushi. But I legit loved everything about the match. When it was over, I decided it needed all the stars.

At work later that day, I'm seeing some of the GIFs posted for that match and well, there's the questionable spot. Funny thing is, I legit didn't even remember it happening during the match. It was so inconsequential to me that I honest to god didn't even know it had happened. Even now when watching the GIF I still have no clue when it happened in the match.

I guess I say all that to say that it really had no bearing on how much I loved that match on initial viewing.

Its a completely different end of the spectrum for me than the problems with the Tanahashi/Ibushi match. Now, that's a match with poor selling. Why should I care about Tanahashi doing constant limb work if Ibushi is still gonna just do all his normal stuff anyway and show no issues other than wincing? And that's the match long story. To me, that's different than a 15-20 second spot based on the idea of adrenaline. It came, it went, and if you wanted to knock a 1/4* or 1/2* off of it that's fine. I'm just not certain I see it as the make or break part of that match.

(I should preface all that with saying that folks are mostly aware by now that I have extremely weird tastes in wrestling in that I love to watch me some Gulak/Thatcher #grapplefucking, but I also legit think The Kingdom is the best tag team going for a multitude of reasons. Blame Memphis, baby. That's what I usually do.)

This is where I kinda fell on the match. Except I'm fully aware where the shitty 1 count selling happened. I viewed it more as a shitty bump or a bad strike. It was a bad choice. The rest of the match was amazing and I gave it 4 3/4*

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Joe Lanza
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:59 am

DylanWaco wrote:Ibushi v. Shibata pop-up no sell sequence might be my least favorite sequence of all time. I honestly can't think of anything worse. Completely unnecessary for the story they were telling and another one of those cases where I have no clue how anyone who values selling on any level could be fine with it, at least if you define that term the way I do.
I've been in hiding until I could catch up, but here is my take on "the sequence".

This will shock no one, but I LOVED it, and I completely disagree with Dylan here. I though it worked perfectly for the story they were telling, which was each man trying to prove they were tougher than the other, and FUCK YOU, I refuse to let you get a mental edge on me, so I will overexert myself and one up you at every turn to prove it. Then, at the end of the sequence, they both collapse and die. I love that kind of FIGHT and heart in my wrestling, and it never comes off as "no selling" (in the sense of "lazy work" no selling, as opposed to kayfabe "i'm tougher than you so fuck you" no selling) to me at all when guys do the fuck off one count kickout. It is a complaint I will never relate to, because I like it as a storytelling device, and it always works for me when well placed.

I thought the match was really fucking great, and if they had been a main event epic that went a little longer, it could have potentially been an all time great match. That's not to say the length was a negative, because it wasn't, but that structure could have led to one of the best matches ever had it been stretched and fleshed out a bit. As it was, still a MOTY contender for sure and a really great match.

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Joe Lanza
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by Joe Lanza » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:31 am

Naito.

His matches have taken on a pattern. Half way through, i'm always thinking, this is OK but nothing special, and then when it's over and I reflect, they're all really good. The pacing in particular is a huge departure from his old routine, and it is for the better.

I never bought into Naito's rep as a "wrestling genius", because I never saw him as some sort of psychology master, but with this new act he's starting to live up to that rep.

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JB Gremlin
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by JB Gremlin » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:23 am

Gallows & Hall V Finlay & White
- Gallows straight up refusing to bump on that comeback! Not much to it but White and Hall look better every time I see them! *1/2

Makabe, Tenzan & Komatsu V Ibushi, Naito & Dorada
- The stuff with Komatsu and Dorada was really fun. Naito was great, again. **1/2

Shibata, Tiger Mask & CNJ V AJ, Fale & Tonga
The highlight of this was AJ/ Shibata interactions, shame this match leads to Fale/ Shibata instead. AJ just deciding to piledriver Tiger Mask seemed strange (I suspect he couldn't be bothered to endlessly hold him during the finish so did that instead) Not bad but not good. *1/2

Tana, Kushida & Taguchi V Yano, Gedo & Yoshi Hashi
This was fun, I'm glad Kushida is back as he's the perfect person for these undercard tag matches, he's got a quick exciting comeback and the crowd will get into him. Tana and Yano didn't do a deal, which was to be expected. Taguchi continues to confuse me because we know he's a good wrestler but he insists on doing comedy stuff which is of no interest to me (at least not the way he's doing it). The last few minutes were good. **1/2

Yujiro V Kojima
Nah. I, Like 99% of people, wish Takahashi would go away. And I didn't care for this match. The highlight was the bump the ref took upon being yanked out the ring by Cody Hall. **

Nagata V Anderson
Just as it was starting to get going it ended but what they did was good. ***1/4

Honma V Elgin
That was excellent. The jumping kokeshi caught into a German was superb. Easily both Elgin and Honma's best match of the tour. Really good, another near fall or two for Honma to really hook the crowd and this would have been up there with the top of this tour, still fabulous. ****1/4

Ishii V Nakamura
Another Nak match where the first two thirds of the match just sort of happen, the last few minutes were good though (And I always like Ishii) so I find it difficult to rate. The biggest takeaway is it looks like they're still going with Nak. ***3/4

Goto V Okada
Another really good match, surprised by how short it went though. Okada getting the crowd to bite on that last sunset flip sequence near fall just goes to show how convincing he is at the 2.999 kick out. The sliding European should be used as a near fall in and of itself as opposed to in a string after the DDT in every match so no one buys it as a finish. It looks and sounds good enough that if he stopped using it in the same sequence and started using it in the falsies it wouldn't take long before the crowd started to bite on it (Especially if he pins a few guys on undercard tags with it) ****1/4

Good show but I think this is the microcosm of last year vs this year, Last year the top three matches would have been MOTY contenders but for whatever reason it isn't quite clicking to that level once you get to the G1 matches, Honma/ Elgin was fantastic and a must watch for anyone who is still down on Elgin in the G1 and Goto/ Okada was really good too. From a story perspective there's so much going on I do not envy Gedo's job. Looks like they're still going with Nak, how will Goto pinning Okada play out (was Gedo's hand forced by Nak missing the last show or was this the plan all along?), Naito continues to shine as a lazy arsehole, WHEN WILL HONMA GET A "W"?
Last edited by JB Gremlin on Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:26 am, edited 6 times in total.

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mprentice84
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by mprentice84 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:36 am

DylanWaco wrote:Also I think at this point we have to start thinking about this tournament as a possible failure. Yes it is too early to brand the tournament with that term authoritatively and there are positive developments that could pan out (Naito heel turn going well, Shibata seeming to have some heat behind him yet again), but in terms of the business end and goals for the tournament this could be a nightmare:

- If the decision to spread things out was made to keep guys from getting banged up it hasn't worked - Ibushi has broken appendages, Nakamura might be out of the tournament, and Yano almost had his brain fall out of his head. And we aren't even half way through with this thing.

- If the plan to run more shows was just a hope to make a huge cash grab, the failure to sellout houses, and in some cases do really embarrassing numbers, has almost assuredly put them well below expectations.

- If the plan was from Nakamura to win the tournament, or even go to the final, his injury has the potential to be a major disaster for the promotions long term booking plans. I have Tanahashi winning, but this Nakamura injury could be really bad. I hope he's okay and this is not the case obviously.

- The shows are clearly below the level of the last few years as they were obviously going to be, but this hit in quality feels harder when the reasons for the format change aren't panning out the way they had hoped.

They really should have done something to add depth and meaning to a lot of these shows, and pretty clearly should have shaken up the entrants more.
I agree with your major points, but it was going to be almost impossible to match the last two years in terms of ring-work and excitement. The houses being down so much could be a bad sign going forward though.

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PKThree
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Re: NJPW G1 Climax 25 (Discussion)

Post by PKThree » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:39 am

I'll just put it out there. Yujiro's ring girl today looked uncomfortable as fuck.

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