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Homicide

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:51 pm
by JML
Discuss here about the Notorious 187.

Whenever I saw him on a ROH show, he added that unpredictable element to it from his persona and presence. Just an aura about him when he came through the curtain.

He could be the biggest heel in the company or biggest babyface. He could do it all. Will rank very high on my list.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:34 pm
by dancecab
I think he needs to atleast be within the question. Is he the greatest worker in ROH history? No. But he's def one of the star characters in the early years and had some memoriable feuds with Colt Cabana, Samoa Joe and Bryan Danielson. Plus his whole story arc with Jim Cornett and then finally winning the title was pretty awesome. I personally love him as a brawler and feel he's a bit underrated.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:37 pm
by Mike
The Homicide run to the Championship is classic. It was just insane to me when he came back in Outlaw Inc and got no reaction, where he was once THE. MAN. in the company.

Interesting to see where he lands on my list, but he'll be on it.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:31 am
by luchaundead
Hard to find a wrestler that was as versitle as Homicide while also being completely authentic to his Character. Homicide could brawl, fly, and work mat both lucha style and japanese style meanwhile, always cane across as a dangerous thug that could turn to dirty tactics or radical aggression at a moments notice.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:11 am
by DylanWaco
People talk about Joe, but Homicide is really the guy who TNA killed. I think a lot of people have completely forgotten the mystique he had as a brutal, lunatic, asskicking, sociopath at his ROH peak. The moment when he comes to save the day at COD is probably a top five moment in the history of the company, and he has to be the best brawler ROH ever produced. Aside from Jimmy Rave I don't think anyone else in the promotion was ever as good as a pure heel either. Super fun in that he had the coolest dive in the company, the craziest finish, and was the one most likely to stab you to death. There is an alternate universe where he retains all this presence and is an easily number one pick for this, but we don't live in that universe unfortunately. Still I struggle with the idea of leaving him out of a top ten, and I don't see anyway I could have him lower than fifteen. I actually bought the best of Homicide in ROH dvd for 5 bucks at Mania weekend and I'll probably give it a good watch before the vote.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:51 am
by Buzz Sawyer
Really enjoyed Homicide. I remember being up at the RexPlex in North Jersey during a match he had with John Walters. Walters screwed up and ended up dropping Homicide on his head from the top rope to the floor. Think they stopped the match and Walters looked scared because he thought Homicide would kill him in the back.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:18 am
by K. Hare
Could be incredibly easy to hate, could also be the most likable guy on the roster. Brought a rough and unpredictable edge to the company. He could fit whatever role you needed him to in any match. His rise from heel in the Cabana feud to babyface underdog hero champion less than a year later is one of the companies high points. It's disappointing that his returns to the company weren't very notable, he was never portrayed as the company legend like he should have been. Still, he's a borderline top 10 candidate.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:11 pm
by DoubleCrossKing
Everyone should heed what Dylan did and get that Homicide comp that ROH put out in 2011/2012. It is a great resume of top-tier matches to bolster his claim to a Top 5/10 spot. Maybe the best ROH Best Of comp they put out in the last 5 years.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:02 pm
by King Of Indy Style
Agree about the comp. It's only 7 bucks on ROH's site and I enjoy it.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:13 am
by Angry216
I stumbled across ROH ten years ago(when I was 11 years old!!) and Homicide was the guy that stood out to me. It also helped that at the time, LAX in TNA was a hot group. But his feud against Cornette was incredible and Dylan's not kidding, when I saw him drive that fork in Cornio's head, it really felt like he was trying to kill the man.

Homicide might be one of the most underrated guys in the last decade because he was so good at so many times. Great brawler and made everything look authentic, but he could do lucha, he could do mat wrestling, his character work was amazing and the Rottweilers in general was a fantastic unit. A guy that could combine all these different styles and blend them into a beautiful, chaotic, force of nature just sounds how great his psychology was. I remember one match, I believe late 03 against Punk where during the match, he legitimately tweaks his ankle and wrestles with a limp throughout the entire match. Once that happened, he completely changed his style and ended up enhancing that match. It's not an all time great match or anything but it's a great example of how smart he was.

He's definitely a second tier star, probably with Nigel and maybe Aries(depends on how you view his entire ROH run) and I wish he was about to continue wrestling in ROH when TNA stop letting ROh talent wrestle on their shows because I felt his ROH title reign could have been longer and it felt like it needed to be after his year long chase for the title. I truly wonder how he would have turned out if he stayed past 2006 but regardless, I feel he's in the top 10.

Also, one of the most underrated entrances in ROH history. Kill Bill's Ironside into The Truth by Beanie. When you heard that combo, you knew shit was going down and the crowd always popped for it.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:29 pm
by InYourCase
The title change vs. Danielson doesn't hold up well at all. Makes me nervous to go back and watch other Homicide work. Hadn't seen that match in probably two years, went back to it for my MOTY project (which is doubling as Honor Roll viewing), and was massively disappointing. Homicide spends a large portion of the match working a reverse Fujiwara armbar. It's the least effective submission hold I've ever seen.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:49 pm
by Angry216
I have never seen the title switch vs Danielson. Ever. It's one of the matches I try to find yearly.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:09 am
by supersonic
InYourCase wrote:The title change vs. Danielson doesn't hold up well at all. Makes me nervous to go back and watch other Homicide work. Hadn't seen that match in probably two years, went back to it for my MOTY project (which is doubling as Honor Roll viewing), and was massively disappointing. Homicide spends a large portion of the match working a reverse Fujiwara armbar. It's the least effective submission hold I've ever seen.
Most of the acclaimed work holds up significantly well. The big ones that don't are the Whitmer match and Punk rematch of their ROH trilogy. Fucking awful in their own unique ways.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:00 pm
by BradPTBN
InYourCase wrote:The title change vs. Danielson doesn't hold up well at all. Makes me nervous to go back and watch other Homicide work. Hadn't seen that match in probably two years, went back to it for my MOTY project (which is doubling as Honor Roll viewing), and was massively disappointing. Homicide spends a large portion of the match working a reverse Fujiwara armbar. It's the least effective submission hold I've ever seen.
Nice post. I want to check this one out but want to kind of build to it and see more from his chase first.

Re: Homicide

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:25 pm
by InYourCase
BradPTBN wrote:
InYourCase wrote:The title change vs. Danielson doesn't hold up well at all. Makes me nervous to go back and watch other Homicide work. Hadn't seen that match in probably two years, went back to it for my MOTY project (which is doubling as Honor Roll viewing), and was massively disappointing. Homicide spends a large portion of the match working a reverse Fujiwara armbar. It's the least effective submission hold I've ever seen.
Nice post. I want to check this one out but want to kind of build to it and see more from his chase first.
The chase is awesome, at least from what I recall. I remember really liking the Destiny match between Danielson and Homicide (6/13/06?) and the finish is great with context.

2003 Homicide is what I'm intrigued to hit again. The two Corino matches, the crazy Do or Die Joe match, and the Kojima match. Will post back in this thread when I rewatch all of that stuff.